Théâtre de tous les peuples et nations de la terre avec leurs habits et ornemens dive

[bookish]

As I re-read History of Highland Dress: A Definitive Study of the History of Scottish Costume and Tartan, Both Civil and Military, Including Weapons, by John Telfer Dunbar, I am going through the process of looking up the pictorial resources. Some of his sources have been viewed secondhand, and in our contemporary age, we can view digital primary sources that were not available when he was writing.

One source cited was a line drawing after Lucas de Heere. The image reviewed, listed as "The Savage Scotsman" at Wikipedia (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Scotsman.jpeg), is part of the collection of watercolors Théâtre de tous les peuples et nations de la terre avec leurs habits et ornemens dive. One can see scans of this book at Ghent University Library online here: https://lib.ugent.be/viewer/archive....050%2C7689&cv=

[Steve Ashton]

In keeping with our forum policy on the basic courtesy protocols we use on this forum I have translated the title of this post for our members.

"Théâtre de tous les peuples et nations de la terre avec leurs habits et ornemens dive"

Translates from the French to the English as -

"Theater of all the peoples and nation of the earth with their diverse clothes and ornaments"


To read more about the rules, policies, guidelines, and the philosophy of X Marks, please click on the "FAQ" tab on the upper menu bar.

[bookish]

In keeping with our forum policy on the basic courtesy protocols we use on this forum I have translated the title of this post for our members.

"Théâtre de tous les peuples et nations de la terre avec leurs habits et ornemens dive"

Translates from the French to the English as -

"Theater of all the peoples and nation of the earth with their diverse clothes and ornaments"


To read more about the rules, policies, guidelines, and the philosophy of X Marks, please click on the "FAQ" tab on the upper menu bar.

Apologies for the gaffe, Steve. I'll be sure to review the rules. Thank you for your service, and for the reminder to be courteous.

[Steve Ashton]

Not to worry at all Bookish. With courtesy and respect have always been the hallmarks of how members of this forum treat each other.

The full title of the book is -

"Théâtre de tous les peuples et nations de la terre avec leurs habits et ornemens divers, tant anciens que modernes, diligemment dépeints au naturel par Luc D'Heere, peintre et sculpteur Gantois."

Which translates to -

"Theater of all the peoples and nations of the earth with their various clothes and ornaments, both ancient and modern, diligently depicted in the natural form by Luc D'Heere, painter and sculptor from Ghent". Currently in the Gent university Library

This manuscript contains 98 miniature paintings of the costumes worn by men and women of various nationalities, including Italy, Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, England, Ireland, Scotland and of course Flanders, but also of more exotic origins such as Russia, Turkey, Persia and some places in Africa. The people depicted are very diverse: young and old, soldier, prince, senator, widow, or, for example, clergy of various orders are featured.

[Pleater]

I have various books - and I had more before I became more cautious about lending them, which claim to be comprehensive guides to garments from antiquity to modern times covering all nations - not one has a Scotsman. Not one has an Englishman in a smock or knitted gansey - many of those joining the English Civil War societies have had to be told that they are wearing garments way above the station of an ordinary man or woman of the time.

My own limited research soon revealed that museums tend to be gifted or inherit (or in some cases steal) the garments which are special and striking - so hopefully as more things are digitised it will be possible to discover and analyse the everyday clothing of the masses.

Anne the Pleater

[bookish]

I have various books - and I had more before I became more cautious about lending them, which claim to be comprehensive guides to garments from antiquity to modern times covering all nations - not one has a Scotsman. Not one has an Englishman in a smock or knitted gansey - many of those joining the English Civil War societies have had to be told that they are wearing garments way above the station of an ordinary man or woman of the time.

My own limited research soon revealed that museums tend to be gifted or inherit (or in some cases steal) the garments which are special and striking - so hopefully as more things are digitised it will be possible to discover and analyse the everyday clothing of the masses.

Anne the Pleater

I hadn't really thought about the lack of common clothing from different eras within a museum collection. My university degree is in art, and I worked at the university gallery. I have also seen storage at my hometown's museum of art. What I suspect from these experiences is that most of us will not see even a tenth of a museum's collection of artifacts. I am sure many museums continue to digitize their collections, so there is hope that artifacts that will likely not get displayed will end up available for research online. It might be worthwhile writing to any museum that houses historic costume to enquire if they have artifacts from common people. They may not have any clothes from the commoner of a given era, but one hopes.

After you responded, I had an opportunity to chat with an historian about this a little bit over the weekend. She brought up that clothes produced by the common person's household will likely not be of as high a quality as the finer pieces that end up in museum collections. Also, being common, will see more wear and tear, and will not be kept in the same way as a garment produced for a special event, or will not be kept for the purposes of documentation in the same way as a garment made for a person of power or of historical significance might be.

I would hope that there are still many examples throughout the ages of the common person's clothes. Finding preserved clothes from ages past seems like it would be the result of luck, more than anything else. The cost of analyzing and dating garments seems prohibitive for common clothes. I am thinking, here, about Peter MacDonald's talk at the V&A Dundee last year regarding dating the Glen Affric tartan. Perhaps this also offers hope — that there is a garment in a collection somewhere just waiting for the opportunity to be discovered and celebrated.

[figheadair]

I would hope that there are still many examples throughout the ages of the common person's clothes. Finding preserved clothes from ages past seems like it would be the result of luck, more than anything else. The cost of analyzing and dating garments seems prohibitive for common clothes. I am thinking, here, about Peter MacDonald's talk at the V&A Dundee last year regarding dating the Glen Affric tartan. Perhaps this also offers hope — that there is a garment in a collection somewhere just waiting for the opportunity to be discovered and celebrated.

The Arnish Moor burial is one example of an ordinary person's clothing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pPzlk_n11ZQ7Nr

[Pleater]

The Arnish Moor burial is one example of an ordinary person's clothing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pPzlk_n11ZQ7Nr

I just read this and noted that the bonnet - although knitted - is very close to the size I hope for when I make my crochet version. They are put into a cloth roll and then washed in the machine, so the outcome can be slightly uncertain.

I recently discovered a tutorial on making a purse from a circle of leather with a thong and ring closure which is almost the same design as the small bags I make, again in crochet - part of the household skills from my grandmother. I still make them and larger bags for use around the house. I sometimes think I should write down how these things were done as when I am gone there will be no one to explain how to do it.

The way of making an undershirt all in one strip with a T neck hole and front opening is what I used when creating costumes for the English Civil War re- enactors.

Anne the Pleater

[bookish]

The Arnish Moor burial is one example of an ordinary person's clothing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...pPzlk_n11ZQ7Nr

Thank you for the link. I found the section on the stockings interesting. I was recently wondering if tartan hose was ever lined with another material (I was thinking linene, specifically). I imagine having a felted wool around parts of the foot were mostly patching wear and tear, but could also offer comfort if built into the design from the start.

[Pleater]

@bookish there have been examples of things turning up after many years - the clothes of a Poole fisherman are on display in the town museum having been found in a trunk - the kit of a quite famous morris dancer was found long after his death, but unfortunately the family immediately disposed of it, as it was considered of no value or interest and it was only mentioned casually after the event.

Household skills of previous generations can be quite destructive - the old way of making a knitted garment means that it can be taken apart easily and remade into something larger or smaller - almost all the garments I made for my children were remade and then worn by the grandchildren until they fell apart. The best parts of worn out woven garments were often used for patchwork or rag rugs, the not so good bits became wash rags or floor cloths or bird scarers out in the garden.

Dressing up clothes from the attic or nursery were lost in the Great War, or if they escaped that, during clothing and fabric rationing in the 39/45 as they were carefully unpicked and reused for briefer modern garments - my grandmother used to do sewing for the people she worked for and had many patchwork quilts of cotton chintzes from the 1800s still in everyday use in the 1950s and 60s - most of which were burnt in the back garden when she left the family house. The skirts of the Victorian gowns were used for the new costumes, Nana was allowed to keep the bodice and offcuts as part of her fee.

Anne the Pleater