"Balmoral" Doublet Help?

[CMcG]

CMcG I think your new jacket will be ideal for black or white tie events. For black tie either buttoned or unbuttoned would suit the occasion, and done up for white tie of course. As for your ghillie brogues with buckles and short laces, I would think it comes into the realm of you adding your own finesse to the outfit. In fact I am attending a black tie murder mystery dinner (set in the 1920's) aboard a train, this friday. I am intending to wear ghillies based upon your buckle attachment design. Good buy and wear the new jacket in good health

Downunder, I recall you mentioning that you had put some buckles on your ghillie brogues. Do let us know how it works out and make sure to post pics, eh?

[MacSpadger]

CMcG.
What is this semi-formal thing? Never heard of it.

I also can’t get my head around people saying that a jacket like this should be worn/can be worn unbuttoned to "black tie" events. It's already been explained to us over here that black tie has a different meaning in the USA, ( and now, apparently, also Australia), but I still can't quite get the "unbuttoned" business.
I am asking this because this thread is in the “traditional” section: This jacket is designed to be worn with a belt over the waist, so why would you unbutton it?
Would you take the belt off?
Or would you just not wear a belt with it?
If the latter, then why not just wear an Argyll?

The Prince Charlie is a jacket designed to be worn “unbuttoned” and that’s one of the reasons why I have never owned one, I don’t see the point in whichtin’ aroon’ in a jaiket that disnae’ dae’ fit a jaiket’s supposed tae’ dae’ an’ hae’ ivvery ither cheil’ smekkin’ Ah’m a feil gype.

Even with an Argyll, where would you wear one “unbuttoned”? I am looking right now at the programme/menu of the last formal function I attended, there were about 150 kilted men present, mostly in black Argyll's but two of the "Old & Bold" were wearing Sheriffmuir Jackets with belts over the top. (We are talking about two men in their late 80's here, and that's their understanding of evening dress, from their time period).

After supper, in print, permission is given to “loose a button”. As it was a big dinner, that’s understandable. There was then a medal presentation and an MSR from a piper. Buttons were then firmly back in place for the official toasts, the Queen and the Regiment. I'm no expert on sartorial correctness, I'm just a scunner from a cooncil hoose that dis' fit he's telt, but I've been doing what I'm told in the name of tradition for a long time.

Why and where would “unbuttoned” suit a formal occasion?

[saxandpipes]

Why and where would “unbuttoned” suit a formal occasion?

I don't know if your question specifically relates to the doublet of the OP, but as you've mentioned PCs and Argylls I guess you mean "in general".

I have a Regulation doublet, which like the Prince Charlie (and I believe Sheriffmuir...) is supposed to remain undone. The tailcoat of a white-tie outfit (it does not get more formal that this) is similiarly designed to remain undone. That being said- the buttons of the above (non-closing jackets/doublets/coats) are also not supposed to be even remotely close to being able to close. (Thus, if your buttons almost meet- with such a jacket- then it is too big).

Cheers,

Michael

[MacSpadger]

post deleted.

[Downunder Kilt]

In Australia Black tie and White tie mean the same as in the UK. There is of course, also Court Dress and Military/Police Mess dress. The Sherriffmuir has been mentioned in relation to black tie events and I believe this can be worn unbuttoned, with a waistcoat and remain well within the realms of Black tie as, I believe CMcG's can, with a waistcoat and no belt.

MacSpadger, you mention that you were last at a black tie event that made a toast to the Queen and Regiment. From this comment I would guess that you were at a Regimental Ball or similiar. I have, in the past, found that Black tie at these events are usually far more regimented than at cilvillian Black tie events

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I very rarely see the Argyle jacket worn buttoned. In fact, I just did a Google image search for argyle jackets, and on the first screen saw 36 images of the jacket being worn open (unbuttoned) and only 2 images of it being worn buttoned. The majority of these photos are catalog photos, showing the jackets being modeled, presumably the way they are intended to be worn.

[CMcG]

I also can’t get my head around people saying that a jacket like this should be worn/can be worn unbuttoned to "black tie" events. It's already been explained to us over here that black tie has a different meaning in the USA, ( and now, apparently, also Australia), but I still can't quite get the "unbuttoned" business.
I am asking this because this thread is in the “traditional” section: This jacket is designed to be worn with a belt over the waist, so why would you unbutton it?
Would you take the belt off?
Or would you just not wear a belt with it?
If the latter, then why not just wear an Argyll?

The idea for wearing a Balmoral doublet open for less formal events, came from the Highland Clans retail website where they say "It can be worn less formally unbuttoned - in this case the belt would be worn round the kilt (under the jacket)." Thanks to Jock Scot's explanation, I think they mean less formal than white tie/full dress, but still black tie formal. Here (again) is the link to their page:
http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Balmo...t_Doublet.html

If the latter, then why not just wear an Argyll?

I already have an Argyll jacket (some might call it a Braemar because of the flap cuffs, rather than gauntlet style) and below is a picture of how I wore it to a Burn's Supper here in Hong Kong. The Balmoral jacket was purchased because it was inexpensive and I like having options:

Even with an Argyll, where would you wear one “unbuttoned”? I am looking right now at the programme/menu of the last formal function I attended, there were about 150 kilted men present, mostly in black Argyll's but two of the "Old & Bold" were wearing Sheriffmuir Jackets with belts over the top. (We are talking about two men in their late 80's here, and that's their understanding of evening dress, from their time period).

After supper, in print, permission is given to “loose a button”. As it was a big dinner, that’s understandable. There was then a medal presentation and an MSR from a piper. Buttons were then firmly back in place for the official toasts, the Queen and the Regiment. I'm no expert on sartorial correctness, I'm just a scunner from a cooncil hoose that dis' fit he's telt, but I've been doing what I'm told in the name of tradition for a long time.

Why and where would “unbuttoned” suit a formal occasion?

In real life, I've never seen anyone button an Argyll jacket, either tweed or black barathea. On Xmarks, I've seen countless pictures of Argyll jackets being worn unbuttoned and only very rarely buttoned. I have been told by people more knowledgeable than I that unbuttoned is the way to go.

I'm no expert on sartorial correctness either and certainly don't have as much experience as you... are we talking about the same jacket?

[BCAC]

Just to hi-jack this post a bit further, I think that most kilt jackets, with the exception of the Balmoral and Montrose doublets, look totally wrong when buttoned up. When I was a child/teenager in Scotland I was made to know by relatives and friends that unbuttoned was the way it should be.

[creagdhubh]

I see many doublets like this worn by friends and aquaintances at balls in Scotland and at the Royal Caledonian Ball in London. You could wear this doublet whenever you wear Highland evening dress.

Precisely, Sandy. I believe this style of doublet will work well for any event in which you will be wearing Highland evening dress. In my opinion, I would follow HRH Prince Charles' look whilst wearing the 'Balmoral' doublet - black bow tie; white, spread collar formal shirt; a smart, black leather belt and silver waistplate. What a great look!

Nice score mate,

[creagdhubh]

The Prince Charlie is a jacket designed to be worn “unbuttoned” and that’s one of the reasons why I have never owned one, I don’t see the point in whichtin’ aroon’ in a jaiket that disnae’ dae’ fit a jaiket’s supposed tae’ dae’ an’ hae’ ivvery ither cheil’ smekkin’ Ah’m a feil gype.

Hahahaha! Quite right, MacSpadger!

Well said mate,