Elastic pleat-keepers in military kilts

**truckie561** · 23rd August 12, 06:36 PM

Here's my Seaforth Box Pleat....no elastic band, but mine is probably a little older and it could have been removed. I also just picked up an older (faded and everything) Cameron Highlander Box Pleat with no elastic. Thought I'd throw that out there...for what it's worth.

**Tobus** · 23rd August 12, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by sailortats

Tobus, I, for one, would not take out the elastic band. You bought this military kilt because that is what you wanted, a military kilt. By taking out the elastic band you are altering this kilt and turning it into something that is no longer a Seaforth - Queens own Highlanders kilt but a kilt that is now similar but not the same as the military kilt. This kilt was part of a uniform and should not be altered is my way of looking at it.

Honestly, that was my first instinct as well. I'm a collector of militaria, especially of the type we're not allowed to discuss here.

And one of the biggest rules on collectible military items is that you do not alter it from its original configuration, or even attempt to "restore" it. So my gut reaction was not to do anything about the elastic on this kilt.

But...

At the end of the day, I didn't buy this as a collector's piece. It's not exactly a rare antique that should be enshrined in a museum. It is, after all, an article of clothing that I intend to wear. I wanted a 'real' military box-pleated kilt, built to military standards. The elastic band isn't really something I think the kilt needs in order to be an authentic military style kilt. And in many ways, I think the kilt will be improved for civilian use without the elastic band (since I don't do parades or drills, and I'm not subject to inspections). If it inhibits the swish of the kilt, I may be better off without it.

Your point is well taken, though, and that's why I'm still debating it in my own head. It's a unique functional addition to a classic design and seems to be a standard item for the Seaforth QOH. But if it makes me not want to wear it because it doesn't perform like I expect it to, then I'll have to give it some pretty serious thought.

**Downunder Kilt** · 23rd August 12, 06:59 PM

Tobus, in your last post you answered your own question "I wanted a 'real' military box-pleated kilt, built to military standards."
Take out the elastic and you will not have what you wanted.

**Tobus** · 23rd August 12, 07:03 PM

Well, wait a minute. Not all military kilts have this. Not even all Seaforth kilts have this. I wasn't expecting it to be there when I bought it. So if I take it out, do I not have what I wanted? Or do I not have a military kilt?

**Friday** · 23rd August 12, 07:26 PM

First of all I believe that Matt's statement that this was probably included by the kilt maker is correct. However, when it comes to the military, and I believe all military units regardless of country, uniformity does not necessarily manufactured that way. Some Sargent Major 20 years ago might have gotten the idea to add the elastic. The Sargent Major then told all of his troops to add then elastic strips. The idea then filter up through the unit to higher command at which point the entire unit is told to add the strip.

Rather than change the specification requirements for new kilts it may have been easier to have the supply Sargent order elastic and have the troops install the strap. Before long it just becomes part of the units standard operating procedures, receive a new issue kilt and sew in elastic strap 5 inches (xx CM) above the selvage.

As an example look at the blocking of the United States (US) Army beret. IMHO it is the ugliest blocked hat I have ever seen. The beret is not ordered that way it is blocked by the individual wearer in a very specific way to look like every other beret in the US Army. IMHO Ugly but uniformly ugly.

Once again, from the looks of the picture I would say it was installed by the kilt maker.

**Nick the DSM** · 23rd August 12, 08:59 PM

I've got a later 90's Seaforth kilt with box pleats (Black Watch tartan) and it does not have the elastic. I would keep it in, I don't see the harm.

**Downunder Kilt** · 23rd August 12, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

Well, wait a minute. Not all military kilts have this. Not even all Seaforth kilts have this. I wasn't expecting it to be there when I bought it. So if I take it out, do I not have what I wanted? Or do I not have a military kilt?

I believe Robert MacDonald, kiltmaker of Westcoast kilts makes his military kilts to old war office specs (standards), perhaps a email to him will sort out whether the elastic is to military spec (standards) or not

**MacSpadger** · 24th August 12, 04:14 AM

I wore a kilt of exactly this type for many years, the old "kidney warmer" and it came with the elastic, as did the kilts of every other person I know who was issued with a kilt of this pattern. I do not have the kilt now, but I clearly remember it was by Thomas Gordon, No. 2 tartan. My brother's was the same, (after the amalgamation of the QOH with the Gorodn Highlanders), and my friend Norman still wears his actual late 1950's issue one, complete with elastic.
I seem to recall these were called "1957 pattern" kilts, but I may have the year wrong. But, to my knowledge, the elastic was military spec from Seaforths Other Ranks 1957 through to near the end of the QOH Other Ranks, when the tartan supplier was changed to House of Edgar and the contract switched from Thomas Gordon to Argyll Kilts.
When the regiments amalgamated, Argyll Kilts were left with a load of military kilt fabric with no-one to buy, and they went into liquidation, if I mind right.
I think that the elastic was part of the structure of MOD box pleated kilts, Cameron Highlanders box pleated 1957 pattern kilts had this elastic, Gordon Highlanders 1957 pattern knife pleated kilts did not.
Highland Light Infantry kilts, (which were made from exactly the same fabric as the Seaforth/QOH kilts and are often confused for them), 1957 pattern kilts did not have the elastic, and neither did/does the kilts of the Officer's Training Corps at Glasgow UTC, which again are made from exactly the same fabric as the Seaforth/QOH kilts.
At no point did soldiers add the elastic, this is how box pleated kilts came for Other Ranks. Officers/Ruperts kilts may have been a different matter.

**Tobus** · 24th August 12, 04:42 AM

Excellent bit of information, MacSpadger! Thank you very much!

I think I'm going to leave the elastic in for now. Not only because it's "original" to the kilt, but because I want to see how it performs.

**Chas** · 24th August 12, 05:35 AM

I think that this is a great thread. The whole 'Why did they do that?' is just fascinating. As an ex-serviceman, I have experienced first-hand the 'on that day; at that time; in that place', good ideas, which become 'next day; down the road; different weather', killers.

Originally Posted by Tobus

I think I'm going to leave the elastic in for now. Not only because it's "original" to the kilt, but because I want to see how it performs.

Tobus - would it be possible for you to do two short pleat-shot videos?

First - shot from behind - wearing your normal tank or equivalent - 10 paces tops, walking away.

Second - same thing, but wearing your military box-pleat.

You don't have to say anything, but we all would be able to see the swish (or lack of it) for ourselves.

Just a thought.

Regards

Chas