Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

[Tuirc]

Jock, I think you are perhaps assuming too much. The topic of this forum is about kilts and associated bits and bobs, so that's what gets discussed. For me, and I understand there are those here that wear a kilt daily, I wear it maybe 6 days a year. So, don't think I'm obsessing on Scottish culture. I eat curry far more than bannocks and you can't even get haggis here.

Since America is about a melting pot of peoples all over the world, we all throw in our little bits and some of those bits become part of "American culture." We then extrapolate it and twist it until it becomes unrecognizable as the thing it originally was and then we market it all over the world. Think pizza for one example.

So, no need to fret, we're (or I'm) not overly focused on this wee aspect of my life, it just happens that this is the topic here. I flew the Saltire for St. Andrews Day and Scottish walk day, but it will be replaced by the American flag today and won't go up again until Jan. 25th.

On the whole, I think Americans are American enough for everyone's taste. Maybe more than enough unless I really misunderstood some of the earlier comments here.

It was 1776, but my ancestors were in Appin, Scotland at the time. 1775 is just when the war started.

[Steve Ashton]

Subtle and discreet...that is sort of like laughing behind your hand, right?.

Some people visit Scotland simply because it is a beautiful country. Some because they would like to see the place their fore bearers left. And yes, some visit and paint their face blue and yell "Alba" at the tops of their lungs.

But it seems that if someone visits and wears a kilt, for whatever reason, the whole equation changes. There are just as many Scots who feel insulted at the theft of a national costume that they would never wear themselves as there are the make-believe tourists.

As I said, I had an enjoyable and pleasant time during my last visit. But only due to my being able to ignore and get past both the snobbery of some Scots and the naivete of some tourists.

On the whole I found the Scots to be warm, inviting, and pleasant.

But as I also said, the next time I go, I will dress like the Scots do. In blue jeans, a t-shirt and ball cap. Less hassle all around.

[Phil]

Subtle and discreet...that is sort of like laughing behind your hand, right?.

Some people visit Scotland simply because it is a beautiful country. Some because they would like to see the place their fore bearers left. And yes, some visit and paint their face blue and yell "Alba" at the tops of their lungs.

But it seems that if someone visits and wears a kilt, for whatever reason, the whole equation changes. There are just as many Scots who feel insulted at the theft of a national costume that they would never wear themselves as there are the make-believe tourists.

As I said, I had an enjoyable and pleasant time during my last visit. But only due to my being able to ignore and get past both the snobbery of some Scots and the naivete of some tourists.

On the whole I found the Scots to be warm, inviting, and pleasant.

But as I also said, the next time I go, I will dress like the Scots do. In blue jeans, a t-shirt and ball cap. Less hassle all around.

It sounds as though your visits fell short of expectation which is a shame. Perhaps if you had heeded the advice given beforehand you would not have been so disappointed.
Good advice though - when in Rome and all that.

[Jock Scot]

Steve.

I would much prefer that subtle and discreet meant that the person in question was out of sight and out of earshot before a comment was passed and a poker face was maintained in the presence of a guest. Better still, keep your thoughts to yourself, however in parts of Scotland that is not an option!

[Woodsheal]

The percentage of Americans - including those of Scottish descent - who concern themselves with the issue of kilts (and Scottish acceptance of foreign kilt-wearing) is perhaps 0.0001%....

[Jock Scot]

The percentage of Americans - including those of Scottish descent - who concern themselves with the issue of kilts (and Scottish acceptance of foreign kilt-wearing) is perhaps 0.0001%....

Well that does put things into perspective a tad, nevertheless some of the 0.0001% do manage to try to impose their ideas, probabably quite unwittingly on the Scots and their National Attire.

[CMcG]

Despite the fiery route, I'm glad that we're getting somewhere with this topic. Thanks, Jock and Phil, for bearing with us, and me in particular I have a couple more questions that might help to clarify some of the Scottish outlooks on kilted Americans (or foreigners more generally).

When ontological priority for defining a Scot is given to permanent residence within Scotland and UK citizenship, then we have one answer to my earlier question about three candidates: the Pakistan born-and-bred fellow living in Scotland with a EU/UK passport is a Scot, while the Scotland born-and-bred guy who now lives in the USA with an American passport and the Canadian born-and-bred native Gaelic speaker living in Nova Scotia with a Canadian passport are not Scots.

Does anyone hold (or at least understand) the specific outlook that Scotland's national attire should be reserved for the Scot in this example (the naturalized Scot who immigrated from Pakistan) and that the other two should find something else to wear? If so, please help me wrap my head around this, because, with all due respect, I'm still having trouble getting how borders and passports supersede culture, history, and ethnicity?

Next, I think Steve's experience (and others too) is a good example of not following a "when in Scotland, do as the Scots do" plan and I wonder how things might have been different under other circumstances. My second question, then, has to do with context and has a two parts.

Let's imagine that Steve and our intrepid trio from above wore the kilt to an event in Scotland where some of the locals might have been wearing theirs, such as a wedding. What might the Scottish outlooks on these four be, assuming they are all wearing THCD appropriate to the event? If they were attending the wedding in the USA, would the Scottish outlook on their kilting be the same or different? This is complicated by the fact that bystanders don't usually check passports, but make judgments based on other things....

[Angstrom]

But as I also said, the next time I go, I will dress like the Scots do. In blue jeans, a t-shirt and ball cap. Less hassle all around.

And any comments about poor misguided Scots trying to dress as 19th-century American miners or cowboys probably wouldn't go over well....

What's ironic -- and sad -- is the inability of those folks to understand that some of us wear kilts for the same reason that they wear jeans: we've found them to be comfortable, practical, and flattering for everyday use.

Sometimes foreigners can play a role in preserving aspects of a native culture. In Greenland traditional kayaking skills had almost vanished 20 years ago, but a small group of US & European enthusiasts have helped rebuild awareness and pride among the natives in that part of their past. The old skills are being taught and celebrated again, and we all benefit.

Similar things happen in the food world -- dishes out of fashion in the native culture are rediscovered by outsiders and reintroduced as a mixture of old and new. Steve's work with pockets seems like this -- an update for modern circumstances that in no way disrespects the original.

I've been trying to think if there are any parallel attitudes toward clothing in US culture, but our history is so short and diverse that it almost doesn't apply. Perhaps a good analogy would be the attitude of some Native Americans to non-tribe-members wearing items that have cultural or religious significance.

One should be polite and not try to give offense, but there are always those who will be offended despite one's best efforts.

[auld argonian]

*** Angstrom

"You can please some of the people all of the time
and all of the people some of the time
but some people you can't please none of the time."

Best

AA

[Jock Scot]

OK, as we are trying to help mutual understanding I will try to answer your questions, but please don't shoot the messenger! Actually the "Food For Thought" answers can give more than a clue here.

Some Scots and most in the surveys don't think the kilt should be worn outwith Scotland--except perhaps for very special occasions.

As clearly demonstrated in F4T2 visitors to Scotland were allowed to wear the kilt should they wish too. Hospitality takes precedence in the Highlands, I think and no doubt in the rest of Scotland too. Although parts of Glasgow might give a visitor some good natured, but pretty tough banter!

I think that I have mentioned from time to time a couple of long term Polish immigrants local to us who happily wear the kilt(Stuart tartan) to special occasions and no one bats an eyelid. I have no idea if they wear their kilt when visiting Poland, but somehow I doubt it as they learnt their kilt wearing knowledge in the Highlands.

From the survey results it seems that the kilt is unlikely to be worn to a wedding in USA--unless it is a special occasion. I suppose it might be if the journey overseas is special too.

Steve encountered the tourist "playing at being a Scot" attitude that so many members here find so confusing and irritating. However from our point of view it is a perfectly natural observation.

I think I have covered your questions and if I have not no doubt you will ask!!