The end of traditional tartan - a personal view

[creagdhubh]

Is this really too much for a custom weave? $1,000 dollars is just under £600 at the moment. My 8 yard, heavyweight kilt in a tartan that I assume is popular enough to be available "off the shelf", sewn by a master kiltmaker, cost £435. For a custom weave the extra £165 would still make this option cheaper than my kilt if I had chosen Kinloch Anderson to make it, who would have charged me £615.

I know Kinloch Anderson charge high end prices, but the bigger kilt making companies in the UK aren't far behind. Comparing the two, I'd view the cost of a kilt using a custom woven, high quality cloth, to the clients own specification but made by a smaller enterprise that offers better value (and in my experience a better product) as a pretty good deal.

I didn't say the cost was too much for a custom weave. I said that the final cost was more than I am willing to pay for a kilt. I am very pleased with my 8 yard, heavyweight kilt in the Macpherson Reproduction colour scheme from D.C. Dalgliesh and made by Barb Tewksbury.

[artificer]

Is this really too much for a custom weave? $1,000 dollars is just under £600 at the moment. My 8 yard, heavyweight kilt in a tartan that I assume is popular enough to be available "off the shelf", sewn by a master kiltmaker, cost £435. For a custom weave the extra £165 would still make this option cheaper than my kilt if I had chosen Kinloch Anderson to make it, who would have charged me £615.

I know Kinloch Anderson charge high end prices, but the bigger kilt making companies in the UK aren't far behind. Comparing the two, I'd view the cost of a kilt using a custom woven, high quality cloth but made by a smaller enterprise that offers better value (and in my experience a better product) as a pretty good deal.

I didn't say the cost was too much for a custom weave. I said that the final cost was more than I am willing to pay for a kilt. I am very pleased with my 8 yard, heavyweight kilt in the Macpherson Reproduction colour scheme from D.C. Dalgliesh and made by Barb Tewksbury.

(Bolding Mine)
Eventually this was our issue as well. We were looking at ordering 130yd/dw of the R'lyeh sett and Dalgliesh wanted over £400 in 'extra' fees. £100ea for 3 custom colours (which they'd dyed before) and ~£114 for the 'custom set up' fee- the rather terse responses to pricing enquiries didn't exactly help either. Quite a different experience from our first go-round when all of the extra fees were waived (due to high yardage ordered) and Kenny personally called me twice.

We ended up going through Marton Mills who DIDN'T assess any of the extra fees (with the significant yardage) and got it at a better base price per yard to boot.

I'm not slagging Dalgliesh off, if that's what they need to charge then that's what they need to charge- it's simply a fact that they what they need to charge forced us to find a different weaver, as it put the project out of our scope on cost.

ith:

[creagdhubh]

I'm not slagging Dalgliesh off, if that's what they need to charge then that's what they need to charge- it's simply a fact that they what they need to charge forced us to find a different weaver, as it put the project out of our scope on cost.

ith:

Excellent point, Scott.

[BCAC]

Just to try and get this thread back on track, so to speak, if I have understood correctly weavers the world over are going to be using a different way of "finishing" their finished woven cloths because of an evolution of the looms? Is the new selvedge worse than the old selvedge? I'm having difficulty seeing the "Oh lord, the end of traditional tartan as we know it" angle. OK, it's the end of one way of doing it and the start of another way (with not much choice in the matter) but tartan will still be woven to make our kilts, won't it? Please enlighten as to why the new selvedge is worse than the old one. It would seem that we are "devant un fait accompli".

[figheadair]

Just to try and get this thread back on track, so to speak, if I have understood correctly weavers the world over are going to be using a different way of "finishing" their finished woven cloths because of an evolution of the looms? Is the new selvedge worse than the old selvedge? I'm having difficulty seeing the "Oh lord, the end of traditional tartan as we know it" angle. OK, it's the end of one way of doing it and the start of another way (with not much choice in the matter) but tartan will still be woven to make our kilts, won't it? Please enlighten as to why the new selvedge is worse than the old one. It would seem that we are "devant un fait accompli".

Oh dear, where to start. Is it an inferior finish (IT'S NOT A SELVEDGE), yes it is. It adds bulk (albeit a small amount) to the edge that will (IMHO) affect the handle of the cloth. More importantly, it cannot be completely hidden and so one ends up with an unsightly edge - it's just another example of dumbing down and there are plenty of parallels one can make but baker's bread vs. the plastic shop stuff is one that comes to mind. Following the logic of but tartan will still be woven to make our kilts, won't it? and tartan weaving in Scotland will die out because you'll be able to get something that looks the same (to many who can’t tell the difference) from China and at a fraction of the price. But is that really what we want.....?

Time to get my loom out and start offering proper hand-woven cloth in natural dyes with a herringbone selvedge. Oh but then nobody will want to pay for the work involved . But never fear, here comes that nice Chinaman.

[chasem]

BCAC, one could argue that the old/true selvedge is better because the selvedge is the same consistency as the rest of the material, whereas the tuck selvedge crams more thread into the same amount of space which often results in a selvedge that's a bit heavier on one color or another than the rest of the tartan. This also adds a little thickness to the material.

That said, to me that aspect isn't a deal breaker. Granted I haven't spent as much time with the true selvedge to get as good a feel for it.

[Calgacus]

Time to get my loom out and start offering proper hand-woven cloth in natural dyes with a herringbone selvedge. Oh but then nobody will want to pay for the work involved .

Now that I would pay for. Seriously, as I am considering designing my own tartan it's a route I would prefer to take over any other. I may not be able to afford it today, next week, or any time soon, but I would seriously consider it.

[jhockin]

IMHO, this comes down to another of the growing examples of how incomes, for most of us, just are not keeping up to the rapidly rising costs of living.

[Domehead]

I buy from Dalgliesh first, Lochcarron next. After that, I change the tartan - or none at all. I have many kilts, but it is not a limitless collection. Each pertains directly to a member of my family, whose own needed replaced for loss, damage or posterity.

As well, my mother and I designed a family tartan, from the ground up. We had it woven by Dalgliesh, splitting the cost amongst the extended family. They did a masterful job.

I appreciate the points being made on both sides of this debate. Sympathetically, I feel for the potential loss of artistic merit re: historic weaving practices, and the quality which accompanies it. However, pragmatically I'm not convinced only foreign sources be the only avenue for Rapier Loomed tartan fabric.

By the way, Figheadair, "Chinaman" is not cool.

That being said, I'm much more concerned with the condition of D.C. Dalgliesh. Any news?

Ryan

[Downunder Kilt]

On 13 May 2014, I had communication with Nick Fiddes re the reweave of a certain Tartan and no mention was made of a delay due to production stoppage. I also received a email from my kiltmaker the same day, advising that notification was received that morning from Dalgliesh and that they (Dalgliesh) anticipate having the tartan ready to ship by the end of that week. As of today, my kiltmaker has not received the tartan. Hopefully they are producing