Full mask sporrans revisited...

[Manxstralian]

I no longer do but I spent my early carreer in the wild fur business. Those with enough grey in their hair remember the Berger commission in the'70's on whether the Canadian Government should allow oil drilling in the Beaufort Sea in the western Acrtic. At the time I followed it with great interest. I remember the testimony of a Dene elder and trapper. He sagely pointed out that his people had been harvesting muskrats for their fur from this area and tradeing them to Eurpoeans for over three hundred years. He urged us to considered the value of those same renewable muskrats for the next 300 years as over that time they were worth more than the value of the non-renewable projected oil reserves.

Where is the real value, plunder the enviornment for oil for fuel and nylon coats for a few decades or leave it in its natural state and harvest the abundance of fur for centuries to come?

A really excellent point! The humane harvesting of animals for a purpose, or the same animals killed (and perhaps exterminated) for short(er) term gain. Something to consider, indeed.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Calgacus]

A really excellent point! The humane harvesting of animals for a purpose, or the same animals killed (and perhaps exterminated) for short(er) term gain. Something to consider, indeed.

Cheers,

Cameron

Excellent point indeed. There are no easy answers. Here's something else to ponder.

land_mammals.jpg

*Edit* That image is coming up a bit small. Link to original-

http://xkcd.com/1338/

[Nathan]

Interestingly, is a fur covered, flap style sporran equally as versatile as one with a face? What is it about the taxidermy head that makes it so universal?

[creagdhubh]

Former Queen's Piper, P/M Jim Motherwell (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders) wearing a rather large and impressive badger sporran.


Another shot of Cluny's Scottish Wildcat sporran.


Invercauld's lovely Scottish Wildcat sporran.




Guests of the Clan Macpherson at our annual gathering in Badenoch a few years back. Note the badger sporran.

[Aussie_Don]

Cameron,

Nice try to re-rail the thread, but you went off on a tangent to de-rail it again.

I'm not talented enough (and biased strongly in the FOR full mask sporran camp (in case you hadn't noticed! )) to re-rail this thread again, I just popped in to say that I find it difficult to understand when someone says that they don't "come from" where they were born and bred. I could understand someone being born elsewhere (there could be loads of reasons why) if his birth was correctly registered and he was taken home to be raised in his ancestral homeland, but "born and bred" somewhere and not "coming from" there is beyond my comprehension. Sorry.

I've got some ideas on this that may be germane to the discussion.

It is arguable that most of the population of Australia and NZ did
not "come from" these places. In both countries there were indigenous
populations present when Europeans arrived. So, in a sense we are
all immigrants. (The same argument applies to the Americas, just
a couple hundred years further back.)

I get a sense (and I could be wrong) that being a part of a culture
where one's ancestors for thousands of years have lived more or
less in the same place gives a sense of connection to place in an
almost spiritual way. I was born in the USA and lived there for the
first half of my life. I know where the graves of my parents and
paternal grandparents are located and can more or less picture
them in my mind's eye. I have no idea where my maternal grand-
parents are buried. But in parts of Scotland/UK/Europe there are
people who know exactly where their g-g-g-g-g-grandparents are
buried. I think this may be a part of the sub-text that we seem
to hit here sometimes.

-Don

[Aussie_Don]

Oh, and to reply to the original thread topic ---

I don't have any particular objections to full-mask sporrans-
but I see it as very unlikely that I'll ever be wearing one.

-Don

[Manxstralian]

I've got some ideas on this that may be germane to the discussion.

It is arguable that most of the population of Australia and NZ did
not "come from" these places. In both countries there were indigenous
populations present when Europeans arrived. So, in a sense we are
all immigrants. (The same argument applies to the Americas, just
a couple hundred years further back.)

I get a sense (and I could be wrong) that being a part of a culture
where one's ancestors for thousands of years have lived more or
less in the same place gives a sense of connection to place in an
almost spiritual way. I was born in the USA and lived there for the
first half of my life. I know where the graves of my parents and
paternal grandparents are located and can more or less picture
them in my mind's eye. I have no idea where my maternal grand-
parents are buried. But in parts of Scotland/UK/Europe there are
people who know exactly where their g-g-g-g-g-grandparents are
buried. I think this may be a part of the sub-text that we seem
to hit here sometimes.

-Don

Exactly Don! You've hit the nail squarely on the head.

Cheers,

Cameron

[BCAC]

I've got some ideas on this that may be germane to the discussion.

It is arguable that most of the population of Australia and NZ did
not "come from" these places. In both countries there were indigenous
populations present when Europeans arrived. So, in a sense we are
all immigrants. (The same argument applies to the Americas, just
a couple hundred years further back.)

I get a sense (and I could be wrong) that being a part of a culture
where one's ancestors for thousands of years have lived more or
less in the same place gives a sense of connection to place in an
almost spiritual way. I was born in the USA and lived there for the
first half of my life. I know where the graves of my parents and
paternal grandparents are located and can more or less picture
them in my mind's eye. I have no idea where my maternal grand-
parents are buried. But in parts of Scotland/UK/Europe there are
people who know exactly where their g-g-g-g-g-grandparents are
buried. I think this may be a part of the sub-text that we seem
to hit here sometimes.

-Don

Sorry, Don, but I can't agree.

I was born and bred in Scotland so, for me, I come from Scotland. I know where my parents are from but I have absolutely no idea where my g-g-g-g-g-grandparents are buried and, I must admit, that even if I was interested enough to do the research and I found that they were bavarian and are buried in bavaria, I wouldn't suddenly consider myself bavarian nor start wearing lederhosen.

[Nathan]

I've been part of these conversations about identity and what is becoming clear to me is that some native born Scots cannot understand the perspective of the diaspora Scot and vice versa.

Regardless of how many times I and others have tried to explain it, there seems in inability or unwillingness to grasp what it means to be of this particular ethnic group but raised outside of the homeland. There appears to be an idea that entire countries are caught in a state of self deception and make believe that they are somethings that they are not when they refer to their land of origin. But the idea that the connection with the homeland is instantly severed does not correspond to the experience of the ex-pat and his descendants.

In Canada, most everyone is something besides also being Canadian. That is how we see each other and ourselves in the world. All of my friends with citizenship are Canadian, but they are also Chinese, Greek, Polish, Ukrainian, Irish, French, Indian, Russian, Aboriginal etc... Referring to their ethnic origin helps explain why they worship where they do, why they eat the foods they eat, why they dress how they do and why they call their parents or grandparents by different names even though we're all Canadians.

When a bunch of ex-pats land somewhere and establish a relatively homogeneous community, the culture remains in tact over generations, regardless of the new real estate.

In fact, many Highland Clans talk about their connection to Ireland even yet...

It would seem this is not how these issues are viewed by many in Scotland and that civic identity trumps ethnic identity.

All I need to depart from a piece of land is transport, but culture doesn't live in rocks and trees, it lives in people and communities.

One of the definitions of nation is that of an identifiable ethnic group, regardless of where they find themselves vis a vis national borders.

At the end of the day, it's perhaps best that we agree to disagree on this subject and keep talking about full mask sporrans.

[Orionson]

"One of the definitions of nation is that of an identifiable ethnic group, regardless of where they find themselves vis a vis national borders.

At the end of the day," YES ... we are all Scots.

Thank you, Nathan ~ for once again hitting the nail so succinctly on the head .