X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    5th July 11
    Location
    Inverlorne
    Posts
    2,569
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    "Highland" embellishments on jackets

    People on the forum often think of the gauntlet (Argyll) cuff or the so called Braemar cuff as particularly Highland looking embellishments to a jacket. I stumbled upon some other clothing recently that made me rethink this notion.

    Yesterday, I came across a Barrister's waistcoat in a thrift shop.



    You'll note the scalloped pocket flaps and gauntlet cuffs.

    Now consider the uniform of the guardsman. This man is in Canada's Governor General's foot guards.



    His cuffs are quite like the Prince Charlie style Braemar cuffs.

    Both of these garments are in the English (Saxon?) tradition. Epaulettes are widely seen around the world.

    I do like these embellishments, but sometimes when a person wears a crail style jacket, there are comments that it looks less Highland. I'm not sure I agree since these so called Highland embellishments were just as common on English and other European garments. Like the Jabot, we just hang on to some things longer than most.
    Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
    Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
    “Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.

  2. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to Nathan For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep, gauntlet cuffs and other styles that still remain traditional on kilt jackets were not exclusive to the Highlands. They were common all over Europe (and everywhere Europeans went) a few centuries ago.

    Personally, I like these embellishments on kilt jackets. Not because they look more "Scottish", but because they look more traditional. I actually wish some of these styles would find their way back to other clothing styles that aren't kilt-related, as I think they add a lot of character. I hate the way modern fashion has become streamlined, simple, and boring. Not only with the lack of details like these, but with boring choices of cloth and lack of tailoring to accentuate body shapes.

  4. The Following 5 Users say 'Aye' to Tobus For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    6th February 10
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    8,180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    Yep, gauntlet cuffs and other styles that still remain traditional on kilt jackets were not exclusive to the Highlands. They were common all over Europe (and everywhere Europeans went) a few centuries ago.

    Personally, I like these embellishments on kilt jackets. Not because they look more "Scottish", but because they look more traditional. I actually wish some of these styles would find their way back to other clothing styles that aren't kilt-related, as I think they add a lot of character. I hate the way modern fashion has become streamlined, simple, and boring. Not only with the lack of details like these, but with boring choices of cloth and lack of tailoring to accentuate body shapes.
    Precisely, Tobus. All of these wonderful wee details and embellishments that we still find in traditional Highland Dress today are simply derived from the military/regimental tradition through the centuries. Scalloped cuffs are even found on the U.S. Marine Corps Dress Blues (see yours truly below).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	267793_1813571230680_7216309_n.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	48.6 KB 
ID:	19721

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	875075_med.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	10.8 KB 
ID:	19722
    Last edited by creagdhubh; 25th June 14 at 05:52 AM.

  6. The Following 4 Users say 'Aye' to creagdhubh For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    17th January 09
    Location
    The Highlands of Norfolk, England
    Posts
    7,015
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    At a time when gloves were very expensive, gauntlet (or bucket) cuffs were functional. They could unbutton and fold down and afford some protection for the hands, especially from wind.

  8. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Chas For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Join Date
    19th May 11
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,788
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like Nathan's first picture. It is toned down and defiantly not military.
    In my view, I would not wear my US Navy dress blue "cracker jack" top with civilian wear.
    I am even less comfortable wearing PC or Argyle tops derived from a foreign nation's military uniform.
    slàinte mhath, Chuck
    Originally Posted by MeghanWalker,In answer to Goodgirlgoneplaids challenge:
    "My sporran is bigger and hairier than your sporran"
    Pants is only a present tense verb here. I once panted, but it's all cool now.

  10. #6
    Join Date
    19th July 13
    Location
    Aberdeenshire, Scotland
    Posts
    653
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think gauntlet cuffs and scalloped pocket flaps derive from the military, they were common to civilian dress in the 18th century. Epaulettes however do have military origins, their original purpose being to stop straps and crossbelts falling off the shoulder.

  11. The Following 6 Users say 'Aye' to Calgacus For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Join Date
    4th October 13
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chas View Post
    At a time when gloves were very expensive, gauntlet (or bucket) cuffs were functional. They could unbutton and fold down and afford some protection for the hands, especially from wind.
    I also believe that the buttons were placed on the outside so that soldiers would not wipe their noses on their sleeves. From the wisdom of the internet:
    According to legend, the answer dates back to the time of Napoleon. The emperor was quite a snappy dresser and a perfectionist when it came to the appearance of his men. One of his pet peeves was the sight of soldiers wiping their noses on the sleeves of their uniforms. To discourage this nasty habit, he had large buttons sewed onto the uniform sleeves.
    Did you ever try to wipe your nose on a sleeve full of brass buttons? Not a pleasant experience, but still preferable to a trip to the guillotine for disobeying orders.
    This text is from a book ‘The Book of Totally Useless Information.’ It’s a informational book, 189 pages, and by Don Voorhes.

  13. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Dileasgubas For This Useful Post:


  14. #8
    Join Date
    6th February 10
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    8,180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Calgacus View Post
    I don't think gauntlet cuffs and scalloped pocket flaps derive from the military, they were common to civilian dress in the 18th century. Epaulettes however do have military origins, their original purpose being to stop straps and crossbelts falling off the shoulder.
    I was just about to post the very same point, but somehow, I lost internet connection with only XMTS! Anyways, yes, gauntlet style cuffs, as well as pocket flaps with braided cord and typically three buttons, were very popular on men's civilian frock coats and suit coats throughout the 17th and 18th centuries, and even into the 19th century, since it was very much the style then. However, whether this fashion is definitively derived from military uniforms, or vice versa, is up to debate. From my own education, I have always believed much of the civilian fashion of the day in regards to the wee details and embellishments here and there, ran somewhat parallel with the general military practice of the time.

  15. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to creagdhubh For This Useful Post:


  16. #9
    Join Date
    19th May 11
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,788
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Kyle, It would be interesting to see what "the working class" wore back in the day. Few could afford or make use of any more than the basic clothes.
    These niceties of fashion were more for the gentry and military.
    slàinte mhath, Chuck
    Originally Posted by MeghanWalker,In answer to Goodgirlgoneplaids challenge:
    "My sporran is bigger and hairier than your sporran"
    Pants is only a present tense verb here. I once panted, but it's all cool now.

  17. The Following User Says 'Aye' to tundramanq For This Useful Post:


  18. #10
    Join Date
    5th July 11
    Location
    Inverlorne
    Posts
    2,569
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tundramanq View Post
    Kyle, It would be interesting to see what "the working class" wore back in the day. Few could afford or make use of any more than the basic clothes.
    These niceties of fashion were more for the gentry and military.
    You're right to a certain respect but you should also remember that it is often written that Highland clansmen didn't trust money. As such, they had a tendency to bejewel their woolen garments with sterling silver, cairngorm and amethyst embellishments so that should they fall in battle, they would have enough of their material wealth on them to pay for a burial etc... They could also leave any additional buttons, weaponry etc.. to their children. They also bartered and made a lot of their own things from spinning to weaving to sewing so depending on the period in question, the common man might not have many clothes, but the ones he had could have been very ornate indeed.

    I should qualify the above by saying the texts in which I read the stuff about the jewels and money were tartan books and not academic history journals or writings from the period so if someone pipes up and says that's a myth, it wouldn't be the first time such a myth was perpetuated in a tartan coffee table book ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Calgacus View Post
    I don't think gauntlet cuffs and scalloped pocket flaps derive from the military, they were common to civilian dress in the 18th century. Epaulettes however do have military origins, their original purpose being to stop straps and crossbelts falling off the shoulder.
    They remain practical as a handy place to put rank insignia.
    Last edited by Nathan; 25th June 14 at 09:22 AM.
    Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
    Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
    “Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.

  19. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to Nathan For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0