Septs and Clans

[sentinel206]

I'm new here but not to Scottish history, archaeology, genealogy, heraldry etc. In contrast to many other Americans whose Scottish ancestry is several generations back, mine's easy. My last name is Cummings, from my father. My mother's maiden name was Frazier (Fraser.) So all my life it's been right there; I didn't have to search! Even finding my (Fraser) immigrant ancestor's lineage wasn't TOO difficult because he was a younger son of one of the Lords Lovat / Clan Chiefs who took part in "The 15" with the Aberdeenshire Frasers and got transported to the Carolinas. Some lines are easy and others are dead ends.

[macwilkin]

Don't forget that Cummings/Cumming can also be a Scottish surname! :-)

http://www.clancumming.us

Yours aye,

T.

[Tarheel]

I don't find it odd that a lot of Scots, Welch, English and Irish eventually ended up in the Carolinas. As a native of the fine "Old North State" the climate and terrains are as close to the Homeland Isles as one could dream of (even for the socially awkward that faux pas the Crown's rules of yore.)

[sentinel206]

I'm new to the forum but not things Scottish (history, culture, archaeology, heraldry, etc.) Actually, I've got doctoral degrees (real ones- not internet) in history and archaeology. All the talk about finding a link several generations back, etc seems strange to me, because my last name is Cummings and my mother's maiden name was Fraser. Major families, made even easier because the immigrant ancestors were younger sons of prominent people who were transported. Cummins (Cummings, Comyn) after Cromwell's Irish Campaign and Fraser in 1716, after the surrender at Preston. What many will discover (or have) is that IF a direct ancestor is found who was in one of the major branches of a very powerful family in the 17th or 18th Centuries, following the ancestry (usually) is pretty easy. The other is that back then, marriage among these families was business and politics.Thus the major families all married into one another; if you're directly descended thru a main line of a "power" family, chances are you are from nearly ALL the others -- including royal descent. Just a little input.

[tripleblessed]

I've had the same experience. Grew up thinking we were the result of a thousand generations of farmers and schoolteachers; honest, hardworking Welsh, Scots, Irish, and a touch of English to keep us humble . Getting pretty deeply into the genealogy revealed unexpected (and, frankly, undesired) connections into prominent, very prominent, and royal lineages. Connecting into those revealed connections all across Europe, some lines somewhat known back over a thousand years. Coming to terms with what some of them did was a little disconcerting, but I finally realized judgment is above my pay grade, and at any rate, they must be assessed
based on the times in which they lived, not by today's values and customs.

Also realized all descent is direct: that is, you either are or aren't descended. Primogeniture is an artificial
structure not universally practiced or even accepted. My Normans would applaud the concept, my Celts would
laugh, saying you only know who you're mother is, you mostly take her word about your father. The arrival of
DNA testing only reinforces that understanding. The talk shows doing "who's your daddy?" testing have shed
more light on what the the testers refer to as "non - paternal events". Runs about 1 in 10, at a minimum, so
primogeniture quickly becomes untenable. Thus the term "a duke's mixture".

[Elf]

Also realized all descent is direct: that is, you either are or aren't descended. Primogeniture is an artificial
structure not universally practiced or even accepted. My Normans would applaud the concept, my Celts would
laugh, saying you only know who you're mother is, you mostly take her word about your father. The arrival of
DNA testing only reinforces that understanding. The talk shows doing "who's your daddy?" testing have shed
more light on what the the testers refer to as "non - paternal events". Runs about 1 in 10, at a minimum, so
primogeniture quickly becomes untenable. Thus the term "a duke's mixture".

Very interesting thread, thank you for the perspective. However, I want to add one more complication. Primogeniture aside, somewhere five generations back, I am apparently connected to landed gentry. Problem is that she was dis-inherited for marrying a sea captain. I doubt claims to be part of that family would be valid.

[sentinel206]

Don't forget that Cummings/Cumming can also be a Scottish surname! :-)

http://www.clancumming.us

Yours aye,

T.

Yes, I know it is. My Comyn folks left Scotland and went to Ireland during Robert Bruce's infamous "Rape of Buchan." They ended up in Waterford, where there's still a lot of Cummins.