Tartan ID help please

[AbernethyCameron]

Hi, hoping some of you knowledgeable folk can help ID this tartan please. I have tried all the usual sources but I have to admit defeat.

This is in good quality 13oz wool, with a really good selvedge and is an early Ann Higgins kilt dating from late 1960s or early 1970s. It fastens with internal fasteners on the left and a single long external belt that runs from the fringed apron on the right, fastening in the centre of the back of the kilt. Given that this is a "proper" kilt and is clearly a good quality weave I was surprised to not be able to ID it.

What looks like a white line through the green is actually a pale caramel colour and the red lines are deeper and less orangey than they appear here. This really has me stumped so would appreciate any informed views, many thanks

[gun eagal]

That looks like a dancer's kilt tartan. They take basic setts, a lot based on the Sobieski brothers' designs, and weave them up in fashion colors.

[AbernethyCameron]

That looks like a dancer's kilt tartan. They take basic setts, a lot based on the Sobieski brothers' designs, and weave them up in fashion colors.

Thanks gun eagal, dance tartans almost always have a strong white component, there's no white in this tartan. It's also a very high quality weave and a highly reputable kiltmaker so it's unlikely to be a fashion tartan. As well as the sizes, the label has "No.40" handwritten so my guess is this was possibly made for a pipe band from a custom weave, strange it isn't in the register though.

[OC Richard]

It's fascinating, because it predates the current fad of pipe bands having bespoke tartans.

About white dancer's kilts, I'm no expert on the history of dancer's tartans but I believe that kilt would likewise predate the fad for white-based dancer's tartans.

The pattern resembles the simple Vestiarium tartans, to me.

EDIT: I checked, and that sett is indeed one the Allen Brothers used repeatedly for their Vestiarium designs, their familiar 4-equal-stripe tartans.

The identical sett, in various different colour-schemes, appears in

MacKay
Makeane
MacQueen
Buchanan
Fraser

Here's the VS MacQueen, the same sett as your kilt but different colours.

[AbernethyCameron]

OC Richard, interesting thank you - would it not be the case that if mine didn't have the red lines, then the sett would match e.g. MacQueen, but the red lines make it different? Thanks again

[figheadair]

It's not the best picture but it looks as thought the cloth is plain weave?

[AbernethyCameron]

thanks - It's a bad picture I had to reduce the quality alot - it is a twill weave, will try an post a close up

[figheadair]

thanks - It's a bad picture I had to reduce the quality alot - it is a twill weave, will try an post a close up

Got it, thanks. Still drwaing a blank, it's not on the STA's database and so have probably never been recorded. No doubt a special.

[Katia]

That looks like a dancer's kilt tartan. They take basic setts, a lot based on the Sobieski brothers' designs, and weave them up in fashion colors.

But that long ago?

It's fascinating, because it predates the current fad of pipe bands having bespoke tartans.

About white dancer's kilts, I'm no expert on the history of dancer's tartans but I believe that kilt would likewise predate the fad for white-based dancer's tartans.

I think-- just basing this on memory here-- that there were dancers wearing dress tartans at least back in the 60s. (Not all, as it is today-- unfortunate, really that "regular" tartans are so strongly out of fashion-- but certainly some.)

Okay, if Youtube is to be believed, yes. When I search for "Highland dance 1960s" there are certainly plenty of dress tartans. As well as in videos that purport to be from the 40s and 50s, and even more than one in this video that says it's from the 30s (look at the length of the kilt on the girl at the end!).

[OC Richard]

That's interesting! Short kilts with sporrans, not a good look.

I know that dress tartans have always been around, but I didn't know they were popular with dancers that far back.

Back when I was a newbie piper (1970s) I met a woman who had been Highland dancer, she had worn an ordinary tartan that had no white, ancient Cooper actually. It's pretty, with purple stripes. At the time she had been out of dancing for a number of years and told me "my kilt wouldn't do now, they want white." That gave me the impression that in the 1960s dancers weren't wearing white tartans. Obviously they were!

I've seen photos of men doing Highland dancing in the 1900-1910 period and they're wearing ordinary tartans. I wonder when white became associated with dancing.