Is there anything like a registry for Scottish Tweeds

[jsrnephdoc]

I'm curious because I'm interested in getting a waistcoat that I could wear for summer outdoor events either WITH or WITHOUT one of my kilt jackets. Many of the retailers (St. Kilda, Kinloch Anderson, USA Kilts, and others) offer different takes on the cut of waistcoats (with and without lapels, satin vs, tweed fabric back, with or without pocket flaps, number and style of buttons, etc, but the fabrics typically bear retailer-specific product codes that don't identify their origin.

So, I'm wondering how one goes about choosing the fabric other than asking for a swatch of what looks good on a website "electronic swatch jpeg," but also curious how the mills who weave tweeds compete with each other regarding fabrics that look identical or very similar but come from different mills.

One reason for this quest is that many of the summer highlands games in the US are held in hot climates, where a sun drenched day in an Argyll jacket could make a spectator perspire almost as much as a caber tosser. Why not just wear a shirt? Because my particular shape has mandated suspending my kilts on my body with the help of suspenders, which I prefer not to display. A waistcoat is less stifling than a jacket but hides the braces.

Thanks so much.

[figheadair]

Simple answer, no, there is no registry for Scottish Tweeds. In fact, there is no register for Scottish Tartans as opposed to the Scottish Register of Tartans- not the same thing at all.

[CBH]

Simple answer, no, there is no registry for Scottish Tweeds. In fact, there is no register for Scottish Tartans as opposed to the Scottish Register of Tartans- not the same thing at all.

What is that supposed to mean ?

We all know and reference https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/index

Seems real and official to me..........

[kilted2000]

What is that supposed to mean ?

We all know and reference https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/index

Seems real and official to me..........

I think he means that the registry is Scottish and it is of all tartan not just Scottish tartan. As opposed to being a registry of specifically Scottish tartans.

[jsrnephdoc]

I think he means that the registry is Scottish and it is of all tartan not just Scottish tartan. As opposed to being a registry of specifically Scottish tartans.

Demonstrating that I did not phrase my initial question correctly. My understanding of how the Scottish Registry of Tartans is that it's descriptive both of older tartans and that new tartans can be registered as well, and that WHEN new tartans are registered, the registrant may control the right of woolen (or other fabric) mills to weave it or allow other mills to weave it as well.

The intent of my question was to ask whether when someone designs a tweed could the designer limit the rights of individual mills to weave it, or even whether there WAS anything analogous to the Scottish Registry of Tartans that enables a description of the tweed that mills could use to weave the same tweed, if permitted to do so.

I am aware that there are some arcane rules regarding the naming of CERTAIN tweeds: e.g., "Harris" tweed needing to be woven in a circumscribed region, I think by weavers working in their own homes and selling there to a small list of fabric houses.

[figheadair]

Demonstrating that I did not phrase my initial question correctly. My understanding of how the Scottish Registry of Tartans is that it's descriptive both of older tartans and that new tartans can be registered as well, and that WHEN new tartans are registered, the registrant may control the right of woolen (or other fabric) mills to weave it or allow other mills to weave it as well.

The intent of my question was to ask whether when someone designs a tweed could the designer limit the rights of individual mills to weave it, or even whether there WAS anything analogous to the Scottish Registry of Tartans that enables a description of the tweed that mills could use to weave the same tweed, if permitted to do so.

I am aware that there are some arcane rules regarding the naming of CERTAIN tweeds: e.g., "Harris" tweed needing to be woven in a circumscribed region, I think by weavers working in their own homes and selling there to a small list of fabric houses.

The SRT has some old and some new Tartans in its database but by no means all of either category. There is no requirement to register a tartan and doing so offers no legal protection. Some modern designs are protected in law by being registered with the Intellectual Property Office (IPO) but that protection is limit, to a maximum of 20 years I think. The only old tartan that is restricted is the Balmoral and that is at the request of the Monarch and the coalesce of the weavers.

Harris Tweed is defined in law and protected by an Act of Parliament but the majority of the individual designs are not regisitered or protected and in theory most designs could be woven by any weaver. There are a couple of mills that have traditionally woven the Estate tweeds, some of which are technically tartan, but it is more a case of the estate commissioning a run and so controlling it as opposed a fashion type tweed where there is less control. That said, there is a sort of gentleman's agreement and designs are often kept in house. Harris tweed is slightly different because the tweed company provides the design to the individual weaver and they then weave it as a form of piece work.

Technically, a tweed weaver could protect a design by registering it with the IPO. I have no idea if any actually are.

[Tomo]

Design registration helps protect the appearance of a product, such as its shape or pattern.
A design registration lasts 5 years and must be renewed every 5 years to keep it protected - up to a maximum of 25 years.

The design must be new - this means the application to register it should be filed before the design is made available to the public (anywhere in the world). However, there is a 12 month grace period during which designs can be shown before making the application to register them.

[jsrnephdoc]

The SRT has some old and some new Tartans in its database but by no means all of either category. There is no requirement to register a tartan and doing so offers no legal protection. Some modern designs are protected in law by being registered with the Intellectual Property Office (IPO) but that protection is limit, to a maximum of 20 years I think. The only old tartan that is restricted is the Balmoral and that is at the request of the Monarch and the coalesce of the weavers.

Harris Tweed is defined in law and protected by an Act of Parliament but the majority of the individual designs are not regisitered or protected and in theory most designs could be woven by any weaver. There are a couple of mills that have traditionally woven the Estate tweeds, some of which are technically tartan, but it is more a case of the estate commissioning a run and so controlling it as opposed a fashion type tweed where there is less control. That said, there is a sort of gentleman's agreement and designs are often kept in house. Harris tweed is slightly different because the tweed company provides the design to the individual weaver and they then weave it as a form of piece work.

Technically, a tweed weaver could protect a design by registering it with the IPO. I have no idea if any actually are.

Thank you SO much for expanding my VERY limited knowledge on the subject. I didn't even KNOW that there was a UK "IPO" available to regulate such things. I DO remember, when my sister, son, and I toured Lochcarron in summer 2023 being told that us their mill wove "fashion" tartans for commercial designers on a contractual basis that forbid them to provide any of the fabric to anyone OTHER than the fashion house that had designed the tartan until 3 years AFTER the fashion house stopped ordering it, at which point their contract would permit them to sell whatever they had left in inventory.

My only other experience regarding "restricted" tartans also comes from that tour, where we discovered a tartan designed by (or perhaps for) NHS nurses in Edinburgh as a charitable venture. "The Nursing Tartan," we were told, was restricted to sale by a single retailer (Gordon Nicolson), and ONLY for use in a limited range of products approved by the designers (chiefly scarves, sashes, and such). Every product sale also generated a charitable contribution to the NHS, which I certainly applauded.

Not even kilts could be made from it. It's quite lovely, in my opinion, and when I purchased a scarf for my registered nurse spouse she agreed. Indeed, while I've persuaded her to wear the Robertson Ancient Hunting kilt I had made for her on only ONE single occasion, she's asked multiple times whether I could obtain an ACTUAL, properly pleated kilt for her in The Nursing Tartan, Locharron has just referred me to the Registry, where the designer is named and an email address provided, but only one of several queries (still back in 2023) regarding that has been responded to by the designer, with a polite "no, at least not yet." And while Gordon Nicolson HAS responded to such questions, it's always been that they're limited by what the designer will permit.

Curiously, however, just a few months ago while idling looking at tartan garment retailers' websites, I discovered a pair of "ex hire" Nursing Tartan TREWS on the GNK website, giving ME hope that I MIGHT soon be able to nurture some affection for tartan in my wife's wardrobe.

[Jock Scot]

Purely out of interest and to be clear I have no intention in causing upset, however, can I ask if the NHS nurses tartan is restricted in any way? Or can a nurse from anywhere wear it?

[jsrnephdoc]

Purely out of interest and to be clear I have no intention in causing upset, however, can I ask if the nurses tartan is retricted in any way? Or can a nurse from anywhere wear it?

I'm aware that ANYONE can (if they're still in inventory at the GNK retail site in Edinburgh) go in to the shop and purchase any of the items for sale in The Nursing Tartan, but that a re-weaving is either in process or completed to make items available again. Most of them would be considered "accessories" rather than garments.



And, from the Scottish Register of Tartans:

Reference:	12548
Designer:	Marshall, Elaine, Chandler, Kate & Duffy, Georgia
Tartan date:	01/04/2019
Registration date:	9 July 2019
Category:	Corporate
Restrictions:	Yes. May only be woven with the permission of Nursing Now or the Registrant of the tartan.
Registration notes:	The design was inspired by the national uniform for nurses in Scotland. These colours are worn by every nurse, healthcare assistant and student nurse in Scotland. This tartan is intended to be used as a symbol of identity, kinship and solidarity for nurses.
Registrant details:	Mr Jamie Smith, Doorway 6, Old Medical School Teviot Place, Edinburgh, Scotland, Scotland, EH8 9AG jamie.b.smith@ed.ac.uk

Also, I think it's interesting how much these descriptors focus on COLOURS, which, of course are NOT what typically define a "registered" tartan. Nevertheless, I think that it's quite attractive, and my spouse, a retired American Registered Nurse, would be VERY happy to wear it in a kilt as a tribute to her own years of service and gratitude for the education that made that possible.