Number vs. size of pleats

[Barb T]

Hi, Barb,

Thanks for answering! This kilt is for me, with a 38 inch waist and 42 inch hips. Here are the calculations that I'd made. If anything isn't right (or is right but... odd.) please let me know. I'd welcome suggestions.

inches apron pleats
waist 38 20 18
hips 42 21 21

fell 7 1/4"

I'm a short, stocky guy.

The original tartan was 4 metres of double-width, giving me a bit less than 8 metres to work with. The sett is right at 6 1/2". It's 16 oz. wool from ScotWeb.

What it boils down to, at this point, is that I believe I'm going to make a mistake if I jump up and down on this poor kilt and try to jam every inch of that tartan into it. Assuming I go to a 1" reveal at the hips (with the current split), that would mean getting rid of 12 pleats, or about 1 yard of material. Since I'm working with two tartan halves at this point, I'd assume that I'd want to take 6 setts off of the end of the left half of the tartan, and 6 setts off of the beginning half of the right tartan. Does that sound right?

And, for those that know better and have done the math before, do the splits look right?

Thanks again for the comments, everyone!

Brian

The only miscalculation I see is that getting rid of 12 pleats x 6.5" set is actually over _2_yards less material. I think I'd compromise and aim for something between 3/4" and 1" in the reveal at the hip. For someone your size, 7/8" at the hips will be fine, and the pleats will still be reasonable at the waist.

Your splits are fine.

The join doesn't have to be in the middle of the back of the kilt. Just mark as many pleats as you can on the first half, even though the mid-back pleat won't be the last one you mark. Then mark the rest of the ones you need on the other half, mark the underapron, and then _don't cut the extra off until you're done pleating_. That way, if you make a mistake, you aren't in trouble. And you also wind up with a single larger piece at the end.

And, as a general comment, I do think that pleat size at the waist matters. You definitely don't want pleats less than 1/2" at the waist in any kilt, and, for a guy, I think that's the absolute lower limit and that pleats 1/2" at the waist really look to small on a guy.

[Barb T]

One personal approach that I take was to find a natural line (two lines) on the tartan to use as the edges of the pleat on both sides (or rather both edges) of the major tripe that I want to pleat it to.

Just a quick note - this approach only works if you don't have any pleat taper. If the pleat has to taper at all toward the waist, you lose the edge stripes toward the top of the pleat, and it doesn't look very good.

Instead of deciding at the start how many pleats you want, start with what pleat size you want.

I absolutely agree with this. I never know how many pleats a kilt is going to have until I figure out where I want each pleat relative to the tartan sett and then lay it out and count how many pleats I have.

[TheKiltedCoder]

Thanks again to meinfs and to Barb for the comments. I'm certainly learning more and more about the whole process, and I'm really looking forward to finishing this.

One other quick question I'll throw out: with the original shaping of the left side of the overapron, there was more width in the shaping from waist to hip than there was in the first pleat. When I get home tonight, I'll redo the math on the pleats and see how things recalculate with a 7/8" pleat at the hip. However, if the shaping in the left side of the overapron is still wider than one pleat, what is the accepted method for dealing with it?

1) Widen the first pleat until I can stitch the entire distance to the fell?

2) Only stitch the part of the overapron that covers the first pleat to the first pleat?

3) Continue stitching the apron edge to the second pleat until I get to the fell line?

4) Somehow stretch or tilt the overapron so that the entire distance to the fell stays on the first pleat?

5) Stop and recalculate because this problem should never occur?

Thanks again for all the pointers, everyone!

Brian

[meinfs]

Just a quick note - this approach only works if you don't have any pleat taper. If the pleat has to taper at all toward the waist, you lose the edge stripes toward the top of the pleat, and it doesn't look very good.

Ooh. Yes, that is true. [If I can set the taper so that it covers the width of the particular edge so that there's a line all the way to the waist, I think it may work. Sometimes there's two edge lines in a tartan which make things easier. Sometimes there's no nearby edges to reference from. It all depends on the tartan.]

I see the point about the edge stripe or line disappearing as the pleat tapers to the waist --- a major stripe might look bare at the top. Although perhaps one might get away with if the tartan is a pretty one to begin with.

I think, the take home message for me personally, are:
-that I make sure that a line edge doesn't disappear in the taper, and
-that the tartan pattern is king and you adjust to it.


Also, you mentioned pleat sizes of no less than 1/2" also holds true at the waist. I never thought of it. So, a 1/2" pleat size at the hips may disappear to less than 1/2" if there's a large taper- which would not be desirable. This is excellent insight and advice. Luckily for me it's either the tapers have not really been large and in general, I prefer to pleat bigger than 1/2" at the waist anyway.

I absolutely agree with this. I never know how many pleats a kilt is going to have until I figure out where I want each pleat relative to the tartan sett and then lay it out and count how many pleats I have.

Thanks Barb. As a budding kiltmaker, I'm glad that some of my instincts are not too off the mark.

[Barb T]

One other quick question I'll throw out: with the original shaping of the left side of the overapron, there was more width in the shaping from waist to hip than there was in the first pleat. When I get home tonight, I'll redo the math on the pleats and see how things recalculate with a 7/8" pleat at the hip. However, if the shaping in the left side of the overapron is still wider than one pleat, what is the accepted method for dealing with it?

Somehow stretch or tilt the overapron so that the entire distance to the fell stays on the first pleat?

I think I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking. But it's very common for the apron-edge taper to be much more than the taper in the first pleat. If that's what you're asking, then you just fold the first pleat the way it needs to be folded and stitch it to the diagonal curve of the apron edge. The apron edge, being a diagonal, will be a little longer than the first pleat, but a little stretching will do the trick, and it will be fine once the kilt is pressed.

You can see it easily in this kilt:

[Pleater]

Do you actually HAVE to stitch the sides of the apron/under apron? It would restrict movement and part of the reason for the shaping (I thought) is to allow the aprons to swing forwards when worn, but still have the sides look vertical.

Its like the shaping in a column, which is curved out only in order to prevent it look as though it is curving in.

Besides, where would you put the pockets?

Anne the Pleater

[TheKiltedCoder]

I think I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking. But it's very common for the apron-edge taper to be much more than the taper in the first pleat. If that's what you're asking, then you just fold the first pleat the way it needs to be folded and stitch it to the diagonal curve of the apron edge. The apron edge, being a diagonal, will be a little longer than the first pleat, but a little stretching will do the trick, and it will be find once the kilt is pressed.

You can see it easily in this kilt:

Hi, Barb,

I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the picture (as they have Photobucket blocked here at the office).

I guess that the easiest way I could explain it was that it was very difficult to try to ensure that all of the lines matched and connected from the overapron to the first pleat while still ensuring that the entire distance between the waistline and the fell stayed on the first pleat.

Thanks again,

Brian

[Barb T]

Do you actually HAVE to stitch the sides of the apron/under apron?

The apron and underapron edges are only stitched from the top of the kilt to the bottom of the fell, just like the pleats are stitched. The apron edge is not stitched below the bottom of the fell.

I guess that the easiest way I could explain it was that it was very difficult to try to ensure that all of the lines matched and connected from the overapron to the first pleat while still ensuring that the entire distance between the waistline and the fell stayed on the first pleat.

Just pin the dickens out of it. I do. That way, you can get it in the right place, stretching it a little, and stitch it down perfectly. Let me know if I still haven't answered your question.

Here's an even better example (although it's not a very good photo). The edge of the apron is not stitched below the point of the yellow arrow. The same is true of the pleats.

[TheKiltedCoder]

Just pin the dickens out of it. I do. That way, you can get it in the right place, stretching it a little, and stitch it down perfectly. Let me know if I still haven't answered your question.

Here's an even better example (although it's not a very good photo). The edge of the apron is not stitched below the point of the yellow arrow. The same is true of the pleats.

Hi, Barb,

I see the pictures now, and I see how everything needs to fit together (and where I was going wrong).

Thanks again for all your help!

Brian

[Barb T]

No problem! Post pics when you're done!