Pre-Culloden 'MacDonnell of Keppoch' image/thead-count sought

[gilmore]

Didn't Prince Charlie also give a tartan to the chief of clan Robertson? And perhaps another chief as well? Could he have lost the uprising because he was paying more attention to his haberdashery business?

[Fit2BKilted]

In my book, Early Highland Dress, I give thread counts for all the tartans mentioned in that article. The one I was referencing was the same as No. 115 in D. C. Stewart's The Setts of the Scottish Tartans, which he claims was copied by his father, D. W. Stewart, from an actual "relic of the '45."

It is a symmetrical tartan (not sure where the "assymetrical bit" came from). Here is the thread count:
R/4 B2 R28 G24 R16 B2 R4 B2 R12 G4 R/16

Thanks very much Matthew! That settles it.

It looked to me that one of the swatch-images posted here was asymmetrical (post #3)... perhaps I was in error.

[Fit2BKilted]

Have I executed this correctly to approximate the tartan using the thread-count given?

[fluter]

Have I executed this correctly to approximate the tartan using the thread-count given?

I think that link was to a temporary file. Try downloading the GIF file, if you can. ("save as" "copy image" or some such)

[Fit2BKilted]

R/4 B2 R28 G24 R16 B2 R4 B2 R12 G4 R/16

I'm curious what the '/' notation means... I presume that it means that there is a block of 20 Red threads in the normal repeat of the sett; but, that the weave is conventionally begun partway through this so that Blue doesn't bleed to the edge. (Did I mention my Graphic Design background?)

[Morris at Heathfield]

Most tartans are symmetrical. That is, they contain a half-sett design that is reversed to make a full sett. The points at which the design is reversed are called the pivots. The "/" notation is used to make explicit that a particular stripe is, indeed, a pivot stripe, and therefore the tartan is symmetrical.

[Fit2BKilted]

So am I correct in interpreting this to mean that the sett, written out 'long-hand' would be like this:

R4 B2 R28 G24 R16 B2 R4 B2 R12 G4 R32 G4 R12 B2 R4 B2 R16 G24 R28 B2 R4

...where the bold text are the borders of the repeat in the sett (net thread width of 8)?

[Morris at Heathfield]

No, assuming that the thread count of the pivot stripes is supposed to represent the full width of the stripes, rather than the half-width, the center stripe should be R16, not R32. I have read that some thread counts have been written with only the half-width of the pivot stripes, but it's very rare to see that nowadays. The full sett would be:

R4 B2 R28 G24 R16 B2 R4 B2 R12 G4 R16 G4 R12 B2 R4 B2 R16 G24 R28 B2 R4

But it could also be written:

R16 G4 R12 B2 R4 B2 R16 G24 R28 B2 R4 B2 R28 G24 R16 B2 R4 B2 R12 G4 R16

...where the bold text indicates the full pivot stripes. Both thread counts would produce the same tartan, only the center stripe would be shifted a half-sett over. Note that the "R4" pivot stripe is always both followed and preceded by a "B2" stripe, just as the "R16" pivot stripe is always both followed and preceded by a "G4" stripe. I hope I've made things more clear than confusing.

Here's a tilable image of a tartan that follows the thread count Matt Newsome gave you:



Find a way to tile it and compare it to the thread count. The visual should make sense if my explanation didn't. Also, you might want to open the image in an image editor and zoom it to 200% or 400% to count the "threads". I believe each thread is one pixel wide.

[Fit2BKilted]

I had intended to try one of the tartan designers and produce a visual representation myself; however, you beat me to it, and for that I thank you!

I will have to ask supplementary questions later, as I'm short on time just now.

Cheers... BTW, my avatar is currently a tartan of my own design, that I am itching to produce as soon as I can gather the cash.

[BoldHighlander]

Now I'm wondering just how many versions of MacDonald/MacDonell/MacDonnell of Keppoch are in the registry... We could use some help in thinning the field, it seems.

Since part of my linage is Macdonald of Keppoch, I once posted a query about this same tartan.
To answer your question see my original thread at:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/m...888/index.html

I have pictures posted of the various Macdonald/MacDonnell of Keppoch tartans posted there, but hurry, the host for the pics (geocities) announced they are closing their free web services October 4th, 2009; thus all images I've posted prior to today will be gone!