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29th October 09, 04:09 AM
#21
 Originally Posted by csbdr
Exactly right, Ted. the Highland regiments were an integral part of the British efforts against the French during the French and Indian Wars. They played a legendary part in the (unsuccessful) British assault on Ft. Ticonderoga (very near me..) although it was not named that at the time. I think it was Ft. Carillon at the time, but don't quote me.... The fort did eventually fall, and the British took posession, changing the name to Ticonderoga.
You are quite correct on all accounts.
First and very disastorious battle (for the British under Abercomby) was in July 1758. While the single battalion of the 42nd acquitted themselves well and bravely, they suffered heavy losses (about 50%) in their assault against the French defenses.
Second battle was in July 1759 and the British (under Amherst) were victorious that time around. Two battalions of the 42nd participated.
Virginia Commissioner, Elliot Clan Society, USA
Adjutant, 1745 Appin Stewart Regiment
Scottish-American Military Society
US Marine (1970-1999)
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29th October 09, 06:26 AM
#22
 Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
Ok, now that I understand this quote was refering to uniforms and soldiers, I was mostly pondering whether some colonial Americans would have had the opportunity to see the kilt being worn, whether by civilians or soldiers, in America going back to this time period. The same might not be true of some other type of ethnic clothing from a different culture, for example, Middle Eastern clothing.
If colonial civilians lived near the theatre of operations in the French & Indian War, Ted, then no doubt they would have seen some Highlanders in kilts.
The historian Fernec Szasz notes a particularly nasty incident during the Revolution in one of the Carolinas where Highlander POWs were verbally and phsyically abused by Colonial civilians as they were being escorted behind the lines.
T.
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29th October 09, 06:59 AM
#23
 Originally Posted by puddlemuddle
Correct,
however it was quickly changed to Darien as a memorial to the Darien settlement in central america where the Spanish massacred all the scots inhabitants.Chad
I'd never heard that. Thanks!
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29th October 09, 10:02 AM
#24
Citation, please?
 Originally Posted by puddlemuddle
Correct, however it was quickly changed to Darien as a memorial to the Darien settlement in central america where the Spanish massacred all the scots inhabitants.
I only ask because I knew that the Scots in New Caledonia (as they called the colony they established on the Darien isthmus in what is now Panama) suffered dreadfully from disease as well as the depredations of the local indigenous tribes and skirmishes with Spanish colonists. I was not aware that the Spanish massacred all the Scots inhabitants. So, if you would be so kind as to point me in that direction, I'd appreciate it.
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29th October 09, 10:27 AM
#25
About the end of Darien:
***
Characteristically, the Scots still refused to quit. Two more expeditions set out, but neither one did any better. The last one, better armed and provisioned
and with more men, fought the Spanish and the jungle almost incessantly from the day they landed. Finally, in April 1700, they too gave up. The four ships,
crowded with men, according to one eyewitness, "like hogs in a sty," set out for home but ran into terrible storms. The ships scattered, and two foundered.
The other two found refuge in nearby English and Spanish ports, but were seized by authorities. Not one ship returned to Scotland. (29)
***
Herman, Arthur. How the Scots Invented the Modern World: the true story of how western Europe's poorest nation created our world and everything in it. New York: Crown Publishers/Random House, 2001.
That's the best I can come up with. Sounds like the English caused more problems than the Spanish...
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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29th October 09, 11:20 AM
#26
 Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
About the end of Darien:
***
Characteristically, the Scots still refused to quit. Two more expeditions set out, but neither one did any better. The last one, better armed and provisioned
and with more men, fought the Spanish and the jungle almost incessantly from the day they landed. Finally, in April 1700, they too gave up. The four ships,
crowded with men, according to one eyewitness, "like hogs in a sty," set out for home but ran into terrible storms. The ships scattered, and two foundered.
The other two found refuge in nearby English and Spanish ports, but were seized by authorities. Not one ship returned to Scotland. (29)
***
Herman, Arthur. How the Scots Invented the Modern World: the true story of how western Europe's poorest nation created our world and everything in it. New York: Crown Publishers/Random House, 2001.
That's the best I can come up with. Sounds like the English caused more problems than the Spanish...
Well, that has certainly always been my understanding. The Darien scheme wiped out a third of all the cash in Scotland causing a huge economic depression. As result of that depression the Scots were bullied, cajoled, deceived, led (you choose the word) into moving closer to the union of Parliaments. It is no mere coincidence that the decision of the King (William) to cover the Darien losses took place in 1706-1707 and restored a modicum of prosperity to the poorest part of his kingdom, greasing the wheels of the tumbril that rumbled south carrying Scotland's legislative independence to the Palace of Westminster.
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29th October 09, 11:34 AM
#27
That's pretty much what The Oxford Companion to Scottish History, 2007, also says.
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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29th October 09, 01:04 PM
#28
I don't think kilts would of been a civilian garment till the 1800s when it became "more popular" to wear. Before then it would be a military garment.
Just my thought and input.
Gillmore of Clan Morrison
"Long Live the Long Shirts!"- Ryan Ross
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29th October 09, 03:05 PM
#29
Sorry guys,
SHould have said the failed colony of the Darien Ithsmus...for some reason I was thinking of the masacre at Fort Mosa during Oglethorpe's St. Augustine Expedition. But yes, you are correct it was the failed colony of the Darien Isthmus. Thanks for clearing that up! It still is a very interesting time to study!!
Cheers,
Chad
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29th October 09, 04:03 PM
#30
Was the plaid ordered by MacBean for uniforms? It could be as the highlanders were formed into a regiment. I don't find that fact alone conclusive as they were farmers and servants, not paid professional soldiers. Another quote supports a possible view that the plaids might have been for ordinary clothing, "we would not propose a fitter person to recruit servants than MacBean; it is a fatiguing task..." and also, "I have got now on board for the Trustees 33 servants..."
Quotes are again from Scottish Highlanders in Colonial Georgia by Anthony Parker, Lecturer in the School of American Studies at the U. of Dundee, Scotland. The quotes can be found on pp.61-67.
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