Confirming Poll for NYS Tartan Proposal

[beerbecue]

I will vote that we still need to come up with something else.... I don't really see NY as a 'red' tartan state.

Just as a quick idea, I took the background image from the website of the St. Andrew Society of NY and came up with this...



Brian, have you had any contact with any of these societies as was previously suggested by Cajunscot?

[Jock Scot]

I understand, Jock. I guess my (too subtle) point is that if Mr. Paterson chose a sett to please himself it would, ipso facto, please no one else and would remain unworn and unappreciated

I can think of one or two clan tartans where the poor old clansmen might have preferred any tartan, other than the one their Chief chose!

[Brian K]

Option #1 reminds me of the Montreat Tartan. The threadcount isn't that similar as much as the overall effect is.

Anyway, like Jock, I don't have a dog in this fight, but would offer one perpective that may have not been raised before in terms of colors used.

Recent tartan designs tend to focus on particular shadings of color used in the tartan- a particular rusty red, a particular piney green, for example. "Design your Own Tartan" types of computer programs exxagerate this trend as one can choose between many shades of the same basic color. The plus and minus of this approach is that often the overall pleasing effect of the tartan is dependent on using those exact colors. Consider the "Isle of Skye" tartan. Beautiful by all accounts, but if went to tinkering with the colors just a little it would not be as recognizable or, IMHO, as attractive. Another example is the Leatherneck tartan, which isn't woven in a recognizable (modern, ancient, etc.) color scheme, but uses a "muted" red, "modern" yellow, "ancient" green, and "St. Andrew's" blue. The effect is nice, but you're a bit limited to those particular colors for it to be recognizable.

The other option would be to design a tartan which used a more traditional approach to colors in unspecified shades (blue, red, green, azure, yellow, white, black) and focus more on making the design elements themselves more recognizable. If you took this path one could have the tartan woven in modern, ancient, weathered, or muted color schemes, to in the same way that traditional clan tartans are woven.

Once again, I don't really have an opinion on the design ultimately chosen, but just wanted to raise a broader point about modern tartan design.

Cordially,

David

Thanks, David. This is something I have thought about to a certain degree and I attempted to deal with it somewhat when discussing Amble's Maples designs. Indeed, I think I have discussed the fact that you don't always know what will happen when different weavers get their hands on a sett in a previous incarnation of this discussion. Even trying to reproduce very specific colors different weavers will come up with different results. That's why it's always good to ask for swatches when making a choice. Throw in ancient, muted or weathered options and you have a real mess on your hands.

Regards,

Brian

[Brian K]

I can think of one or two clan tartans where the poor old clansmen might have preferred any tartan, other than the one their Chief chose!

Point to Jock

[Brian K]

I will vote that we still need to come up with something else.... I don't really see NY as a 'red' tartan state.

Just as a quick idea, I took the background image from the website of the St. Andrew Society of NY and came up with this...



Brian, have you had any contact with any of these societies as was previously suggested by Cajunscot?

Beerbecue,

This is a vast improvement over their original eye-jarring sett. It like it! The other looks like it's out of focus.

I have not yet contacted anyone because I think it would be best to have a design settled before we search for support. Jock's point about too many people involved in the design process is a good one, and we've already had a lot of input here.

I take it you still haven't heard back from the St Andrews Society yet. Keep us posted. Of course, it's always possible you've shaken them up and they'll try to steal our thunder. That could be OK, though, because it would still give us a state tartan!

I would suggest that if people like your design better than those proposed here they pick the start over option and post why.

Regards,

Brian

[BruceK]

While I like Option 3 I would still like to see a stripe of white in there. So I voted for "Something New". Sorry...

[Brian K]

While I like Option 3 I would still like to see a stripe of white in there. So I voted for "Something New". Sorry...

No need to be sorry. It's your opinion and your entirely entitled to it.

There are already six colors in this sett and the addition of a seventh would add to the expense of producing it in cloth. Adding white could mean returning to the drawing board, which, of course, is entirely possible. One thing about white, though, is that it is tough to work with in tartan design. It doesn't take much to take over and distort the look of the other colors. This is not just my opinion; I know other designers who feel the same way about white.

Regards,

Brian

[davidlpope]

There are already six colors in this sett and the addition of a seventh would add to the expense of producing it in cloth.

Are you sure this is true? I've never seen Dalgliesh (my preferred custom-weaver) adjust pricing due to number of colors used in the design. Can you elaborate?

David

[Brian K]

Are you sure this is true? I've never seen Dalgliesh (my preferred custom-weaver) adjust pricing due to number of colors used in the design. Can you elaborate?

David

David,

I can't speak from personal experience as I can't afford stock cloth right now, let alone custom, but it has been my understanding that more than 6 colors is highly unusual, so maybe you haven't run into that problem. Indeed, one of the Anderson Clan societies' website made a big deal that their tartan has six colors and needed at one time to be woven on special looms.

In any event another member of this forum who is a friend of mine told me she was having one of her designs woven and it had seven colors. She said she might as well have used a custom color as the upcharge was that great. She's still getting the cloth, but the price is high.

Regards,

Brian

[ccga3359]

This is, I believe, is the third thread in regards to designing a tartan for a New York State tartan. Although I'd really like to see for everyone to come together on one design, it seems like it keeps going in circles. I had a tough decision for my new Ontario kilt whether I'd go with the more recognized Ensign of Ontario (based on the colours of our provincial flag) or the newer Official Ontario tartan. I chose the official tartan because of it's meaning, specifically the blue representing the lakes (particularly the Great Lakes) due to my service with the Coast Guard Auxiliary on western Lake Ontario. May I suggest each of you New Yorkers look inside and say what represents to you, New York. Whether it be Lakes Erie & Ontario, the Hudson River or that engineering marvel the Erie Canal. Perhaps its Watkins Glen, the Finger Lakes or the Adirondacks. Perhaps it's the cities like Albany or Buffalo or the numerous towns with the names of your First Nations that I cannot pronounce. One of you said that you don't see New York as a red state. true if you're talking political affiliation, but if we're talking forest consider how our Maple Leaf tartan, aptly named personifies the changing colour of a maple leaf. New York is as famed as Vermont and Ontario for it's fall colours. Perhaps a hunting tartan in a red-gold that closely follows a blue-green state tartan. NYC has a wonderful tartan, NY State needs one too.

Just my two cents, which since we're not at par, isn't really worth as much.