Scottish Festival Peeves?

[YoungMan]

I just wore the kilt to a pirate festival too. I think the difference is that the kilt is an article of clothing, dressing like Captain Jack, or a fairie, or Conan IS a costume.

I think this might be the real truth behind the problem. I would wager that most Americans see the kilt, or traditional clothing from any culture for that matter, as a costume. I think it stems from the fact that as Americans, we don't really have a natural "dress" of any kind so we don't understand the idea of expressing our culture through what we wear. Therefore, most people just see Scottish gatherings as big costume parties for eccentrics that aren't to be taken too seriously. Basically we're on par with a cosplay convention. Sad really.

[Nighthawk]

I think part of the problem is that some are really Highland games and some are Highland games AND Celtic festival.

I went to a straight Highland games, very small, in Jackson Hole, Wyoming last year and loved it. Everyone was happy to be there, it had the feel of games back in Scotland I'd been to/competed in and lots of Scottish Country and Highland dancing that people were actually interested in.
Tonnes of pipe bands from all over and all of them very good and very friendly. And the re-enactment group were mostly historically accurate which I LOVED.



However, here in Boise it's of the 'AND Celtic Festival' variety that I see complained about on the forum so much.


The entire thing seems to be set up like this:

Hugely obese guys who can't fit into a kilt and so have a tablecloth wrapped around them or a kilt pinned so that the two edges leave a good flash of thigh at the side competing in the games and not knowing what they are doing.

Bagpipers. More bagpipers. Even more bagpipers. All the bagpipers from different local groups scowling at each other then playing a massed pipe band they don't want to do together. Because they all HATE each other and have absurd amounts of in fighting.

Ten minutes of Highland dancing that very few people pay attention to.

Ten minutes of Scottish Country dancing that no one pays attention to.

Five hours of Irish dancing that everyone whoops and hollers about and celebrates.

Two hours of great folk music by local band/s that no one pays attention to.

Thirty minutes of 'modern' Celtic music (Swagger/The wicked tinkers/flogging molly etc etc) that everyone goes crazy about even though they do the same basic songs and show all over the country all summer and year after year.

A dodgy re-enactment group who span about 50 time periods and use made up weapons to do the same basic plot. (Bad guy tries it on with lady. Is surprised when she pulls a short sword from her skirt and defends herself. Distracts her then captures her. Is challenged by good guy and eventually beaten. They all use only Klingon weaponry and giant two-handed Claymores.)

A dodgy closing ceremony.




Now, don't get me wrong, it's fun and the organisers do it because it's what brings the money in for it to happen at all. But it's not like home at all and, while I'm getting better about it, sometimes I just find it kind of insulting to my country and heritage to see people use 'Scottishness' as an excuse to wear absurd outfits, get drunk and say it's almost as good as St. Patrick's day.
I can forgive the outfit malfunctions and the badly made tablecloth kilts and even the Sport Kilts worn over shorts and athletic socks. But the idea that all Scotland really amounts to is booze, fat athletics, Celtic Rock and Irish dancing is kinda insulting.

That would be the Renaissance Scots Living History Society. That's the group I'm involved in. I missed Jackson Hole last year. It looked like a great festival. Thanks for the positive feedback! If you have FaceBook you can make friends with us. We'd love it!

[wildrover]

Back then the US Games I attended were pretty much ONLY about the traditional Highland Games things. People walked about in traditional Highland Dress. There were the athletics, and Highland Dancing, and Piping, and perhaps sheep herding. Period. The merchants sold tradtional Highland Dress and ceramic Loch Ness Monsters and shortbread and little else.

This is the image of the Highland Games I grew up with. "Games", not "Festival".

For whatever reason, over the years Highland Games in the US have become more diffuse and might be called Highland/Irish/Celtic/Renaissance/Alternative Lifestyle festivals, almost a blending of a traditional Highland Games with a Ren Faire and the Seattle Folklife Festival perhaps.

Well, it does sell tickets. The Irish and Scottish festivals here in Denver were merged due to cost outpacing profit, IIRC.

I just wore the kilt to a pirate festival too. I think the difference is that the kilt is an article of clothing, dressing like Captain Jack, or a fairie, or Conan IS a costume.

We can wear kilts nearly everywhere, dressed up or down, in true highland finery or with a rugby shirt and boots. Captain Jack will always be Captain Jack - a costume (unless you happen to be a late 18th c pirate)

Geoff and at least one other echoed this sentiment, but I don't agree one bit. If you wear your kilt to the hardware store, you're just an eccentric in a hardware store. If you go to an event where most everyone is in costume, even if it's a mask on a stick with white glue, feathers and glitter, you're wearing a costume just like everyone else. A kilt may be multi-purpose, but you're at a renfaire...so it turns in to a costume. Turning a blind eye to context is a potential fault of our determination to kilt up.

Technically, everything CJS was wearing in the movies was also clothing, and so is a giant rabbit suit. Context is critical. There's a party this weekend with a "goth/emo" theme, and I'm damn sure not wearing my kilt, even though I'll be coming from a buddy's house party where I'll be not only kilted, but piping. !@#$-all if my kilt gets associated with goths and emo...I'm just gonna dress normal and draw a bunch of red lines across my wrists instead (remember, across the wrist for attention, down the wrist for a casket! ).

I understand. My point, though, was about their perception of it. They see a lot of kilts at Ren Faire (i.e. more than they see in norml everyday life), so they perceive it more as a costume than regular clothing. And they probably make the leap of logic to assume that if a kilt fits in at Ren Faire, then a Ren Faire costume should fit in at a Scottish festival. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

I think you've nailed it here, and once the re-enactors, historical characters, and other things have been added to the average Scottish festival (not games, festival), there's a real melting pot, and it's not so great a leap when so little emphasis is placed on Scottish roots and so much emphasis is placed on throwing a party.

Still on the fence as far as wearing it to renfaires...I know I can get away with it, and you know I want to, but should I?

I'm thinking not, honestly. Unless, of course, they decide to throw in a piping competition.

Why not? Because the 8yd knife pleated kilt is distinctly modern, that's why. If you want to wear a kilt to a renfaire, look through the old (and anachronistically appropriate to a renfaire, in some cases) paintings and drawings of Scotsmen in kilts, and put together a costume from an older time period. Frankly, it would probably be better received than if you show up in the band uniform, or your tank, hiking boots and clan t-shirt. It would at least be in the spirit of an anachronistic amalgamation of hundreds of years of history, whereas wearing your modern kilt, boots and t-shirt to that party is in a similar vein as wearing a tablecloth and six foot sword to a Highland Games. A for effort, F for execution, right?

I wonder if renfaire forums have similar gripes about guys walking around in hiking boots and kilts at renfaires.

In closing, I want a funnel cake.

[artificer]

Geoff and at least one other echoed this sentiment, but I don't agree one bit. If you wear your kilt to the hardware store, you're just an eccentric in a hardware store. If you go to an event where most everyone is in costume, even if it's a mask on a stick with white glue, feathers and glitter, you're wearing a costume just like everyone else. A kilt may be multi-purpose, but you're at a renfaire...so it turns in to a costume. Turning a blind eye to context is a potential fault of our determination to kilt up.

Technically, everything CJS was wearing in the movies was also clothing, and so is a giant rabbit suit. Context is critical.

The difference IS context. If you wear your kilt, hikers, and a polo to the store- you MIGHT be eccentric, if you wear your CJS costume to the hardware store, you're either nuts or on your way to a pirate fest.

Are cargo shorts, hikers and a t-shirt a costume if worn to a ren-faire?

...
Why not? Because the 8yd knife pleated kilt is distinctly modern, that's why. If you want to wear a kilt to a renfaire, look through the old (and anachronistically appropriate to a renfaire, in some cases) paintings and drawings of Scotsmen in kilts, and put together a costume from an older time period. Frankly, it would probably be better received than if you show up in the band uniform, or your tank, hiking boots and clan t-shirt. It would at least be in the spirit of an anachronistic amalgamation of hundreds of years of history, whereas wearing your modern kilt, boots and t-shirt to that party is in a similar vein as wearing a tablecloth and six foot sword to a Highland Games. A for effort, F for execution, right?

I wonder if renfaire forums have similar gripes about guys walking around in hiking boots and kilts at renfaires.

In closing, I want a funnel cake.

That's exactly my point (no, not funnel cake ) I'd wear a kilt to a ren-fair (gods forbid) the same way I'd wear it anywhere else. I'm NOT dressing up, I'm taking my kid out to an event he (hopefully won't) want(s) to go to. Just like I'd wear it to the zoo, the hardware store, etc. It's clothing, I'm not trying to re-create any historical 'costume'. So when I wear it with a contemporary shirt and hikers, it's clothes.

It ISN'T a costume and isn't being worn as one. As far as a modern kilt (utilikilt) I don't own one. But again, it's just clothes. Unless you're attempting to pass it off as 'historically correct'... just clothes. CJS will always be a pirate costume as nearly every element of his (once accurate and appropriate) outfit is now wildly anachronistic and hasn't seen any real use in several hundred years.

edit: I just wanted to clear up that I've nothing against those who attend ren-faires, they're just not my cup of tea. I'm hoping my son will feel the same. (fingers crossed smiley here)

[dux]

[ delete ]

[macwilkin]

I think you've nailed it here, and once the re-enactors, historical characters, and other things have been added to the average Scottish festival (not games, festival), there's a real melting pot, and it's not so great a leap when so little emphasis is placed on Scottish roots and so much emphasis is placed on throwing a party.

To be fair though, there are a number of very good reenactment organizations that do belong at Scottish games and festivals -- By Dand, for example, which reenacts a 19th century company of the Gordons (and has a number of ties with ex-members of the regiment, including Gen. Sir Peter Graham), and a number of others who attempt to portray the average Jock of their period to the best of their ability.

T.

[Cygnus]

I recently attended the Utah Scottish Festival with mixed feelings...

It was my first time going (which is a surprise, since I've been interested in my Scottish heritage for the past decade at least) and I wasn't sure what to expect. I've been talking to my wife about kilts and pipes for a while now, and she and the kids came with me.

When the "Captain Jacks", "Tablecloths", and "ScotGoths" walked by, she'd raise her eyebrows and give me the "You want to be one of THOSE people?" look. And I was embarrassed for them and for me. My daughter seemed a bit confused but quickly took to hurling a stick around after watching the Caber Toss for a minute and fell in love with the dancers' dress. She still talks about how she needs special clothes before she can dance.

So, my three-year-old daughter was 100% accepting and my wife made things uncomfortable for everyone. Which is why I'll throw my lot in with those who prefer more "traditional" Scottish festivals. I'm not saying the other folks shouldn't be allowed, but I would certainly prefer not having to wade through the preconceptions that these poorly- (or confusedly-) dressed folks are hammering into the heads of the general public just to peacefully wear a kilt (in my own home, no less!).

So, put me down for 'other', though all of the really bizarre outfits are the ones that make me cringe the most - and I think that's mostly because the people that wear them are the least likely to change with a kind suggestion and do the most damage to the public perception of kilt-wearers in general.

[Zardoz]

OK, for instuctional purposes, let's put together a list of stuff you guys find intolerable at a Highland games event.

Too many pipers.
"Modern" celtic music.
Fat athletes, or maybe fat people in general?
Irish dancers.
The Irish in general it seems...Too bad the "Scotti' brought the games tradition with them from Ireland!
People who wear their Highland dress funny or wrong.
People who just dress funny.
People who like to drink.
Pirates. Disney ones in particular.
Mythological creatures like fairies or elves etc.. Guess that would go doublr for Leprechauns, since they're Irish.
Renfaire folk in garb of any kind.
LARPers, actually I'm with y'all on that one. They are invading SF cons and faire too.

[Vegan Scot]

OK, for instuctional purposes, let's put together a list of stuff you guys find intolerable at a Highland games event.

Too many pipers.
"Modern" celtic music.
Fat athletes, or maybe fat people in general?
Irish dancers.
The Irish in general it seems...Too bad the "Scotti' brought the games tradition with them from Ireland!
People who wear their Highland dress funny or wrong.
People who just dress funny.
People who like to drink.
Pirates. Disney ones in particular.
Mythological creatures like fairies or elves etc.. Guess that would go doublr for Leprechauns, sinse they're Irish.
Renfaire folk in garb of any kind.
LARPers, actually I'm with y'all on that one. They are invading SF cons and faire too.

To circumvent this in the future I think I may just sit in my room while wearing my kilt and stare at the mirror while reciting Burns and listening to CD's of piping instead of going to the games. Maybe sip some apple cider and nibble on my fake haggis while I halfheartedly wave a tiny Saltire.

[artificer]

OK, for instuctional purposes, let's put together a list of stuff you guys find intolerable at a Highland games event.

Too many pipers. -Can you HAVE too many pipers?
"Modern" celtic music. hu-whu? I love Flogging Molly and the Pogues
People who wear their Highland dress funny or wrong. entertainment
People who just dress funny. mostly entertainment
People who like to drink. isn't this the entertainment?
Pirates. Disney ones in particular. I don't get it, but hey, at least pirates can party! And everyone loves women in velvet Basques
Mythological creatures like fairies or elves etc.. Guess that would go doublr for Leprechauns, sinse they're Irish.Okay, this is irritating, but if I saw a leprechaun, I'd throttle the little b@stard 'til he handed over the loot
Renfaire folk in garb of any kind. I think it's more the renfaire folk who perpetuate wildly inaccurate 'information' and overact like a 12yr old drama student
LARPers, actually I'm with y'all on that one. They are invading SF cons and faire too. ahh, common ground

To circumvent this in the future I think I may just sit in my room while wearing my kilt and stare at the mirror while reciting Burns and listening to CD's of piping instead of going to the games. Maybe sip some apple cider and nibble on my fake haggis while I halfheartedly wave a tiny Saltire.

Ha! I'll be wearing a kilt, polo (or linen) shirt, and boots with scrunched down hose [ala Tartan Army] while drinking a pint or three of bitters and eating a pie floater while Premier League football plays

BTW: this has nothing to do with avoiding LARPERS, it's just how I spend my evenings when I'm NOT making sporrans