Situation at Walmart -- or Clean-Up in Aisle 3

[Nighthawk]

You'd be surprised. Part of the reason some children act like this is because their parents really don't care to correct them. I'd bet that if the parents of these two girls were summoned to Walmart, there's a 50/50 chance that they'd be more upset at everyone else than they would be at their own kids.

That's just been my general observation on parents of kids like these. You try to call them out for the behavior of their children, and they end up getting mad at you instead. They go into defensive mode, with the "how dare you question my parenting skills?" attitude. And to be quite honest, a lot of kids learn this behavior from their parents. So it's not very likely that there will be any consequences once the kids get home.

Both my parents are teachers. They would agree with you. One of the biggest problems with the education system is the parents! Kids assault teachers, kids assault each other, they get detention... and the parents come in screaming and cursing at the teachers as if they have wronged the kids by not letting them do whatever they please. My son has very long hair, and there was another boy who kept grabbing my sons nipples, calling him gay. My son and I study in the same karate school, and my son hauled off and hit the kid in the ribs, one punch that floored him. Well, both kids got suspended and both sets of parents called in to talk to each other. The other kid's parents were outraged that my son had the nerve to touch their kid! The fact that their had a record of sexually assaulting other kids was irrelevant. I told them that their little darling shouldn't be picking fights with other kids because you never know when one might be a champion fighter, and they got all kinds of indignant! Totally acted like their kid had done nothing at all wrong. But I'll tell you- the harassment has stopped.

I take it then that you are a fellow MST3K fan? Or Mistie if you will? And that you would agree that Bruce Campbell is the man? If so, then ROCK ON! If not, then I don a sad face and shuffle away in my kilt.

I have a copy of my StarCon program from 1997 signed by both William Shatner and the MST3K guys. They all, Shatner included, did a roast of Star Trek 5 live at that con. And yes- Bruce is my HERO! I got Jack Of All Trades as a wedding gift from my best man. (The ancient Chinese god of bean curd is probably one of the funniest things I have ever seen... except for Ossie Davis playing JFK... )

Give me some sugar, baby!

[wildrover]

I take it then that you are a fellow MST3K fan? Or Mistie if you will? And that you would agree that Bruce Campbell is the man? If so, then ROCK ON! If not, then I don a sad face and shuffle away in my kilt.

"Gimme some sugar, baby." His cameo in "Escape from LA" was good, too. It's amazing all the places he turns up.

How? On what grounds, for being annoying and inconsiderate? You try somethink like that on kids that would do something like what we're discussing and you're going to find yourself in far more trouble than them.

Stick them in the back seat of a cruiser, and they will change their tune. It's worked around here. Also, harassment via social media is a crime on the books in a few states these days, so...maybe there's some ground to stand on. A quick smack of the cell phone and a mistakenly placed booted foot might be more of a lesson, though. The last thing a bully expects is for their prey to suddenly kick their ***.

You'd be surprised. Part of the reason some children act like this is because their parents really don't care to correct them. I'd bet that if the parents of these two girls were summoned to Walmart, there's a 50/50 chance that they'd be more upset at everyone else than they would be at their own kids.

That's just been my general observation on parents of kids like these. You try to call them out for the behavior of their children, and they end up getting mad at you instead. They go into defensive mode, with the "how dare you question my parenting skills?" attitude. And to be quite honest, a lot of kids learn this behavior from their parents. So it's not very likely that there will be any consequences once the kids get home.

Hate to say it, but Tobus is right. When "the parents" showed up to a recent call around my area, "the parents" turned out to be one shiftless schmuck, out of about 15-20 kids. The rest drove away in the cars their parents bought them. Parental attitude is a good reason to throw these idiots in to the fiery jaws of the criminal justice system, where they will be procedurally mistreated and inconvenienced for months before being let off without charges or any stain on their permanent record.

If their parents aren't inconvenienced, the kids' behavior won't change...so you have two choices, if you want to make a lasting impression...kick their asses since their parents aren't doing it, or drag their parents kicking and screaming through the Halls of Jobsworth after their no-account offspring.

Don't feel bad about doing it, either. Most kids in situations like this are assumed to be doing it just because they're kids, not criminals, so after scaring the piss out of them, they're turned loose.

Travis, you got a good kid. Here's my imagination hilariously running loose: "YOUR kid punched MY kid! I don't CARE if he grabbed your kid's tits! How DARE he hit *thump* OOOOOooooooof!"

[biblemonkey]

I have a copy of my StarCon program from 1997 signed by both William Shatner and the MST3K guys. They all, Shatner included, did a roast of Star Trek 5 live at that con. And yes- Bruce is my HERO! I got Jack Of All Trades as a wedding gift from my best man.

Give me some sugar, baby!

That is awsome. Always good to meet a fellow Mistie. I'm sure you already know about rifftrax.com then? Wonderful site and the laughs just keep on comin'. Less of a favorite but my buddy swears by it is cinimatic titanic. That stars the rest of the cast other than the basic three from the theatre.

The wife bought me the entire Brisco County Junior for my birthday a few years ago. Sounds like we both know awesome people. If only Carlton Cuse had had the free reign on that show that he got on Lost, we may have had many years more with Lord Bowler and the gang.

"Shop smart...shop S-MART!"
Hugh

[McFarkus]

Sometimes life turns around and bites bothersome people.

Some teenagers were being a nuisance outside my sister's house and she went out and asked them to be quiet. ......Next morning the garden wall had been pushed over, and when my sister was outside working to clear up the broken bricks, one of the girls went past and told her that that was what she got for daring to mess with them.

A few months later my sister was interviewing applicants for a job, and guess who walked in. The girl went white as my sister tore her application form in two saying 'No chance. That's what you get for messing with us.' It doesn't happen very often, but then, it doesn't have to. .......Anne the Pleater :ootd:

I love it when the old saw comes true - What goes around, comes around.

........ I walked in the door to the school and took my hat off. That was when it struck me- I did that because my Irish grandfather had drilled into me that it was rude for a man to wear his hat inside! I heard my grandfather in his slight Irish brogue gently reminding me to mind my manners........

I also have a little voice in my head. My mother was raised in Virginia and my little voice is her saying, "A gentleman never....(wears a hat indoors)" or "A gentleman always....(gives up his seat for a lady)" Just fill in the blank.

Well played, sir .

So right, Travis. I had a helluva good laugh (not a cynical laugh, an honest one) flipping through a little book in B&N entitled "Things White People Like" or something like that. In addition to being a hilarious backhand to Helpless White Suburban America, upon reflection, it also indicated an utter separation of Man from Roots........-Sean

These folks have a website too http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/

[biblemonkey]

"Gimme some sugar, baby." His cameo in "Escape from LA" was good, too. It's amazing all the places he turns up.

Yeah, he was the main reason I started watching Burn notice. Turned out that show rocks anyway, but Campbell really adds somthing. He is the best at what he does. As my wife says, "Alot of his movies are crap but he is ALWAYS good." And, I have to say, in spite of how roughly he's aged, the man still has an AMAZING headfull of "hero hair".

[Tobus]

Also, harassment via social media is a crime on the books in a few states these days, so...maybe there's some ground to stand on. A quick smack of the cell phone and a mistakenly placed booted foot might be more of a lesson, though. The last thing a bully expects is for their prey to suddenly kick their ***.

Um, wait a minute. Are you advocating physical violence against two rude teenage girls over taking a picture? I would hope not.

Whether it's a 'crime' or not to use the internet for harassment, there's still nothing illegal about girls taking your picture when you're in a public place. While their behavior was rude, to be sure, I think we all need to keep things in perspective. The first line of defense is to never go about in public dressed in such a manner that you'd be embarrassed to have your picture taken. Beyond that, good manners and gentlemanly behavior still apply. Physically assaulting someone who is exercising their rights (rude though it may be) is not called for.

[hootstwo]

"Gimme some sugar, baby." His cameo in "Escape from LA" was good, too. It's amazing all the places he turns up.

Stick them in the back seat of a cruiser, and they will change their tune. It's worked around here. Also, harassment via social media is a crime on the books in a few states these days, so...maybe there's some ground to stand on. A quick smack of the cell phone and a mistakenly placed booted foot might be more of a lesson, though. The last thing a bully expects is for their prey to suddenly kick their ***.

Hate to say it, but Tobus is right. When "the parents" showed up to a recent call around my area, "the parents" turned out to be one shiftless schmuck, out of about 15-20 kids. The rest drove away in the cars their parents bought them. Parental attitude is a good reason to throw these idiots in to the fiery jaws of the criminal justice system, where they will be procedurally mistreated and inconvenienced for months before being let off without charges or any stain on their permanent record.

If their parents aren't inconvenienced, the kids' behavior won't change...so you have two choices, if you want to make a lasting impression...kick their asses since their parents aren't doing it, or drag their parents kicking and screaming through the Halls of Jobsworth after their no-account offspring.

Don't feel bad about doing it, either. Most kids in situations like this are assumed to be doing it just because they're kids, not criminals, so after scaring the piss out of them, they're turned loose.

Travis, you got a good kid. Here's my imagination hilariously running loose: "YOUR kid punched MY kid! I don't CARE if he grabbed your kid's tits! How DARE he hit *thump* OOOOOooooooof!"

Well, I don't know how things work in your neck of the woods, but I can tell you here the cops would basically laugh at you for the incident in question. As to social media harrassment, well, a pattern is required there. Don't get me wrong, I totally think it's wrong that the girls did this...

I AM a teacher and can tell you first hand behaviour like this is totally supported by parents, and even if it isn't, parents will do absolutely EVERYTHING in their power to ensure that their kids can do anything they choose.

I have a wonderful cartoon on my desk that a friend gave me, it's got two frames. In the first frame labeled "1960's", there is a picture of a parent holding their young student's report card with an "F" grade featured prominently. It's clear that the parents are admonishing their child. In the adjoining frame labeled "2010" there is a picture of the parent holding their student's report card again with the "F" but this time the parents are yelling at the teacher. This is very much the norm with students' parents these days. It is far less common that parents come to interviews asking what they or their children can do to improve - far more common are either complaints, or requests of what can be done FOR their children.

The type of kids that would pull a prank like that know that their parents will "have their back" so to speak and those parents would tear a strip off anyone that attempts to correct their childrens' behaviour.

[wildrover]

I could never be a teacher...the things you have to put up with just boggle my mind.

Being a gentleman is all well and good, until it doesn't work anymore. You can continue to turn the other cheek until they're both bruised up, but the reality is, you'll gain nothing but bruises in the process. I fail to understand the mindset that declares that the actions of bullies must be suffered in silence by gentlemen. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

The phrase "kick their ***" is metaphorical. Nobody seriously advocates violence on an internet forum. Call the police, it is their job to take you seriously. Also sue, it is the court's job to take you seriously as well, even if it's just a cup of spilled coffee. Don't suffer bullies because of some notion that you're a better man, just deal with them in the way that best fits the situation, and move on. If you're in a situation where there is no Jobsworth to come to your aid, the best course of action may simply be to fight back. If you can play the authority game and keep your own hands clean, do so...that is what the system is for.

But don't let a bully be a bully, just because you figure you're a gentleman. The OP certainly didn't just let it go, and neither would I.

*edit...ok, I had to walk away from this thread for a minute, but mulling it over, there's a better way to say what's on my mind.

In my opinion, our modern societies...America, Britain, other Western nations, we all have this failing in our attempt to create the best living environment...a failure, both in private society and officialdom, to differentiate between aggressive and defensive action, be it violent, procedural, authoritative, or psychological in nature.

Things that may be employed for "bad" use are seen only as "bad", not in the context of their use...thus taking defensive action against an aggressor is suddenly just as bad as the original actions of the aggressor. I see this as utterly wrong, ingenuous, thoughtless, and downright morally corrupt. The ability to understand actions in context should be at the heart of conflict resolution, as opposed to the moral equivalency we erroneously assume.

I see this gross fallacy as the heart of the difficulties faced by a teacher in reprimanding a problem student, in the frustration people have with the trappings of post-9/11 security, some legislation regarding defense of person and property, and even evidence presented in court...it's a long list, it's all derived from our good intention for justice to be as blind as possible, and it's a good idea, but becoming increasingly stupid in its implementation.

The end result is violence on the rise even though its tools are outlawed, and gentlemen being prohibited by law from defending themselves against criminal mischief. I think this is a terribly unhealthy mindset.

Make sense now? Or just TL/DR?

[Tobus]

Call the police, it is their job to take you seriously. Also sue, it is the court's job to take you seriously as well, even if it's just a cup of spilled coffee.

Call the police? For what? Girls taking your picture in a public place is not a crime. And you can't sue them unless you can find where they posted your picture online and 'harassed' you.

Plain and simple, the girls' behavior was rude, but it doesn't rise to the level of taking legal action. There are plenty of court precedents that allow people to take pictures of others in public places. And especially at Walmart where the store itself is taking your picture on their security cameras.

The OP used the best tools he had at the time: calling the store security people to remove the girls, which the store has every right to do. But there's a big difference between that and calling the cops, who can only respond to actual crimes.

[wildrover]

I edited my post. Maybe it will make sense now.