Ok...It's been a while since I have posted...The 21st century has kept me busy. I have begun (FINALLY!) the targe project that has been on my drawing board for a few years now...I decided to make a practice one, to figure out what size and configuration was ideal for me, and what I planned to use it for. Being as I sometimes engage in both wood and steel weapon combat, this practice unit had to withstand quite a bit, so I started with 3/4" plywood, 23" diameter (ish). Tradition having some sort of boss up front, with a spike or broken sword sticking out, I utilized a 1/2" pipe flange base, and mounted a section of dowel in a pipe end to attach it-I am still toying with length on this. Given the diversity of my opposition, this feature may go thru several design trials. As far as anchoring the targe to myself, I used 15 ounce harness an a steel buckle, with a pair of D-rings to create a flexible arm attachment below the elbow. Adjustable because I do not know whether I am going to be just wearing a shirt, a shirt and jacket, or some combination including a section of armor or padding. The handgrip is doubled leather with a pair of D rings. All of these items can transition directly to the final targe unit.
I have begun testing the practice unit with possible field conditions, both modern era and those that may have presented in it's own era.
1. Against pistol (the one shown in Practice Targe-2, a .50 caliber smoothbore). With a 40 grain blackpowder charge and 6-.36 caliber buckshot, there was no penetration. With a 40 grain blackpowder charge and a single patched .50 caliber roundball, penetration happened, but the wood retarded the speed of the ball to the degree it would not have been a risk factor to the defender. Splinters would have been more a danger. I have no leather on the back, yet-this would have been a good thing to have against the splinter factor.
I will update as I go, if anyone cares...Sword, axe, pitchfork, bayonet and sythe defense capability is on the schedule-just WHEN is the issue...
Thought this may of interest to you. This is a combat demonstration given by my living history group. You can see just how much abuse a good wooden targe can take!
Mark, your test is VERY interesting. We commonly think of armor as useless against firearms. Your information indicates this may not have been so.
Oh, armor was not at all useless against firearms! Another common misconception is that shields are only defensive. The SCA guys around here don't like to play with us any more because we insist on using targes as offensive weapons. And yes, you're right- this is a very interesting test! And Mark- one thing we demo on occasion is the damage caused by striking a targe on the edge, as opposed to the face. That might be an interesting unit for this particular test. Just a suggestion!
And I do have a small question, Mark. I like the design you used for your forearm strap. You mind if I steal it? I'm making a reproduction of a specific 1650's targe and the backside is almost all rotted away, so the straps and their attachments are gone. Yours is brilliant!!
Last edited by Nighthawk; 7th March 11 at 06:33 PM.
"Two things are infinite- the universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein.
Mark, your test is VERY interesting. We commonly think of armor as useless against firearms. Your information indicates this may not have been so.
Well, here's my take-you don't have to STOP a bullet, necessarily-just SLOW IT DOWN. Given ballistics of the era, the lead was flying fairly slow. I was evaluating the sense of our forerunners using leather on the Backs of their targes, and can see it as both padding as well as something to lessen splinter wounds. My test was a pair of point blank shots-12" off the wood. I know a musket will penetrate, but want to back up the targe with ballistic gel, to get an accurate read on what a soft tissue trauma would result.
Also, targes were fairly flat-From my understanding, armor itself was stable due to curvature-so bullets wouldn't be 100% impact, but would glance away.
Oh, armor was not at all useless against firearms! Another common misconception is that shields are only defensive. The SCA guys around here don't like to play with us any more because we insist on using targes as offensive weapons. And yes, you're right- this is a very interesting test! And Mark- one thing we demo on occasion is the damage caused by striking a targe on the edge, as opposed to the face. That might be an interesting unit for this particular test. Just a suggestion!
And I do have a small question, Mark. I like the design you used for your forearm strap. You mind if I steal it? I'm making a reproduction of a specific 1650's targe and the backside is almost all rotted away, so the straps and their attachments are gone. Yours is brilliant!!
I ran into a similar issue with an SCA bunch here-but not over a targe. I would throw wrestling in with armed combat. They wanted to just poke each other. On the edge damage...I have done up a couple of shields, and have always used laminated wood. This allows a person to "catch" a chop, lock and push a blade away-without splitting. NOT recommended for small shields! Viking size ones, perfect-besides, they were using shorter blades anway. I am also concerned with the offensive spike/sword section feature. Having been hit with a longsword and a shovel, I think I may be doing a differential temper so that the spike will actually shear...before my arm does.
I don't mind a bit-Here's a couple of changes though, that I see myself using...Use steel D-rings. I have had shields torn off, and this could be a weak point, with the brass. My original reason was to be able to have this system transfer to the next targe, and a somewhat adjustable system. I also have an idea for mounting hardware that you may find revolutionary (as opposed to lag screws!)...I can email a sketch later. If you want a bit of 15 ounce hide, I may be able to part with some. A brass buckle to handle the thickness too. I am also figuring out a strap system for carrying between battles. Note the overstrap on the wide arm band-it's a belt loop for a shoulder strap. I originally planned to use the buckle for BOTH straps...Leather may prove too thick. Redesign...Or use lighter leather. I can take more photos if you are interested, too.
Just remember that even a low velocity fat lead ball, provided it can pierce the skin, may still be lethal due to the clothing and other foreign particles it can introduce into the wound which will set up a nitus of infection down the road. I believe there was a scene in "Master and Commander" where they extract just such a low velocity ball wound and fish out the clothing patch and hold it up to the covering garment to make sure they got most of it out. Some folks used to duel in the nude to prevent this very thing.
Did they have the means to glue wood back in the day? I wonder if modern plywood would have greater density and resistance than nailed together planks (or however they built targes back then).
I'm looking to build one but will probably start with some very lightweight wood so it won't be difficult to carry around all day, then build one of these battle ready ones down the road.
Originally Posted by Mike M.
And yes, you're right- this is a very interesting test! And Mark- one thing we demo on occasion is the damage caused by striking a targe on the edge, as opposed to the face. That might be an interesting unit for this particular test. Just a suggestion!
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