How to Complete this Outfit?

[Dixiecat]

Sir Malcolm is wearing a detachable winged collar, white bow tie ( of marcella or pique ) and the neck ribbon and badge of a Baronet of Nova Scotia.

This was so cool, that I immediately googled around to learn about this. I'd never heard of the Baronetcies of Nova Scotia. A little tidbit of Nova Scotia history that was neglected in my Upper Canadian education.

I found the earliest MacGregor title was created in 1795 (MacGregor of MacGregor of Lanwick). Which actually makes this a Baronetcy of Great Britain not Nova Scotia, but of course The MacGregor could have gotten his Baronetcy through succession of a different creation.

And I see that the MacGregors have quite a history, being banned from using their own surname? I've got more reading to do!

[JSFMACLJR]

This was so cool, that I immediately googled around to learn about this. I'd never heard of the Baronetcies of Nova Scotia. A little tidbit of Nova Scotia history that was neglected in my Upper Canadian education.

I found the earliest MacGregor title was created in 1795 (MacGregor of MacGregor of Lanwick). Which actually makes this a Baronetcy of Great Britain not Nova Scotia, but of course The MacGregor could have gotten his Baronetcy through succession of a different creation.

And I see that the MacGregors have quite a history, being banned from using their own surname? I've got more reading to do!

You are quite correct in that Sir Malcolm MacGregor MacGregor is not a Baronet of Nova Scotia, but rather of the UK. Looking closer at the photo, you can just make out the blue stipes on the ribbon, and the Red Hand on the badge. Thank you!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The Baronetage of Nova Scotia was created by James I in 1624 to assist in the colonization of Nova Scotia. The king dying before any appointments were made, it was up to is son, Charles I, to make the first appointment in 1625. Originally limited to a maximum number of 100 baronets, this was later raised to 120, then 150. In 1629 the baronets of Nova Scotia were given a special badge to denote their rank. In 1707 the Baronetage of Nova Scotia was merged with the Baronetage of England to form the Baronetage of Great Britain and all further creations of baronets in Scotland were as Baronets of Great Britain until 1801 when the baronetage of Ireland was merged with that of Great Britain and henceforth all newly created baronets were baronets of the United Kingdom.

A baronet is, effectively, a lesser baron, and is entitled to prefix his (or her) name with the title "Sir" (or "Dame"); unlike barons and other peers they were not entitled to a seat in the House of Lords, nor were they considered to be peers.

To distinguish the baronetage from the knightage (since a knighthood does not confer an hereditary title, but does confer the right to prefix the recipients first name with "Sir") a baronet is usually styled in documents, on cards, and in the press as "Sir John Smith, Bart." or "Sir John Smith, Bt."

[OC Richard]

Yes very well done indeed!

I really like the look of the top outfit, the tartan waistcoat with long hair sporran. The only change I would make is to wear a wing collar shirt.

When I saw the photo of the outfit sans sporran on the Original Post, to me the outfit screamed out for a sporran like this:



a goathair sporran with vintage cantle.

[SlackerDrummer]

When I saw the photo of the outfit sans sporran on the Original Post, to me the outfit screamed out for a sporran like this:



a goathair sporran with vintage cantle.

But, Richard, EVERY outfit screams out for a sporran like that.

[CMcG]

OC Richard, is there a specific reason you suggest a wing collar? I have one and it has hidden buttons, which might address my concerns about the visual imbalance of the black button studs...

And that goat hair sporran is a real beauty!

Here is a close-up of my horsehair sporran. My dad used to wear it when he played with the Edmonton Boys Pipe Band fifty years ago.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

OC Richard, is there a specific reason you suggest a wing collar? I have one and it has hidden buttons, which might address my concerns about the visual imbalance of the black button studs...

And that goat hair sporran is a real beauty!

Here is a close-up of my horsehair sporran. My dad used to wear it when he played with the Edmonton Boys Pipe Band fifty years ago.

If you haven't already done so, you should apply to the Canadian heraldic authority for a grant of arms, and then have the shield engraved on the escutcheon on the cantle of your sporran.

As regards the wearing of wings collars, I'd suggest "don't", unless your shirt is of the variety that uses a proper, removable, collar. The reasons for this are many and varied, but center around the fact that proper wing collars tend to have bigger points, and are taller, thus presenting a more elegant appearance. They are also heavier, with the result that they don't wilt half way through the evening. Attached wing collars inevitably have minuscule -- underdeveloped?-- points, and some are so low cut that they barely rise above the collar of the jacket. In order to make the collar withstand the rigors of an evening's outing it is necessary to over starch the shirt, making it both overly warm and uncomfortable at the neck and arm holes.

[OC Richard]

OC Richard, is there a specific reason you suggest a wing collar?

Here is a close-up of my horsehair sporran. My dad used to wear it when he played with the Edmonton Boys Pipe Band fifty years ago.

So cool about that sporran! It's wonderful to perpetuate the wearing of it like you do.

About the wing collar with formal Highland attire, it looks 'right' to me simply because it's what I see in the old Highland dress catalogues I have from the 1920s through the 1950s etc.

Back in the 1860s, in The Highlanders of Scotland, there doesn't seem to be any notions about wing collars being more formal than ordinary collars, or bow-ties being more formal than straight neckties, and you'll see all combinations of neckties, collars, and jackets.

But by the 1930s Highland Dress had become highly systematised/compartmentalised and in my old Highland Dress catalogues Evening dress is always shown with wing collar and bow-tie, or jabot.

In my old catalogue

The Scottish National Dress
Wm Anderson and Sons LTD Edinburgh and Glasgow
By Appointment to His Late Majesty King George V

it is stated:

Highland Dress in the Evening.

Neckwear.
A wing collar or a lace jabot must be worn at all evening dress functions. If a wing collar is worn, a white or black bow tie must be used with it. Certain authorites maintain that a white tie should never be used, but the more generally accepted view is that the tie may be black or white at the discretion of the wearer.

That's a lot of "musts" ! Note than neither jabots nor white ties appear in The Highlanders of Scotland.

But in the period from the 1920s to the 1950s it appears to have been quite common to wear jabots with Prince Charlies.

In my 1950s Anderson catalogue it says:

Evening Wear

The Coatee (what we call Prince Charlie)

This is one of the best styles, especially for a younger man, for Dances and other evening functions. It is usually made of black cloth and with silk facings. It is generally worn with a white evening shirt, wing collar and black tie, and with a to match waistcoat.

[southpacifickilt]

Alright, I've taken everyone's generous suggestions and put it all together. Let me know what you think? Can I pull any of these off?

#1 formal evening attire

of course you can pull them off! all of them

the one thing i would suggest with a waistcoat cut that high is a stock tie preferably with quite a small pin. it has been said before that it looks "softer" and i kind of agree (also- i just like stock ties)

[saxandpipes]

So cool about that sporran! It's wonderful to perpetuate the wearing of it like you do.

About the wing collar with formal Highland attire, it looks 'right' to me simply because it's what I see in the old Highland dress catalogues I have from the 1920s through the 1950s etc.

Back in the 1860s, in The Highlanders of Scotland, there doesn't seem to be any notions about wing collars being more formal than ordinary collars, or bow-ties being more formal than straight neckties, and you'll see all combinations of neckties, collars, and jackets.

But by the 1930s Highland Dress had become highly systematised/compartmentalised and in my old Highland Dress catalogues Evening dress is always shown with wing collar and bow-tie, or jabot.

In my old catalogue

The Scottish National Dress
Wm Anderson and Sons LTD Edinburgh and Glasgow
By Appointment to His Late Majesty King George V

it is stated:

Highland Dress in the Evening.

Neckwear.
A wing collar or a lace jabot must be worn at all evening dress functions. If a wing collar is worn, a white or black bow tie must be used with it. Certain authorites maintain that a white tie should never be used, but the more generally accepted view is that the tie may be black or white at the discretion of the wearer.

That's a lot of "musts" ! Note than neither jabots nor white ties appear in The Highlanders of Scotland.

But in the period from the 1920s to the 1950s it appears to have been quite common to wear jabots with Prince Charlies.

In my 1950s Anderson catalogue it says:

Evening Wear

The Coatee (what we call Prince Charlie)

This is one of the best styles, especially for a younger man, for Dances and other evening functions. It is usually made of black cloth and with silk facings. It is generally worn with a white evening shirt, wing collar and black tie, and with a to match waistcoat.

The outfit looks great by the way!

As for the wing-collar shirt. If you can get a good one (preferably with detachable collar (so, infact not a "wing-collar" SHIRT at all), then fine. But a nice turn-down collar shirt will always look infinitely better than a cheap puny-wing-flimsy-collar-shirt. Even with a (black) bow-tie. A white-tie necessitates a PROPER collar (high, crisp, detachable or not)!

Cheers,

Michael