Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Kilt isn't 'just clothes'.

[pauljsharp]

I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. I am an American of mixed descent of which two of my many lines is Scottish (others include English, French and Danish.) I wear the kilt as an homage to those Scottish ancestors and as a source of pride for that part of my family history. I would wear my kilt more often but as I have said in previous threads it is impractical with my profession and my wife does not enjoy the attention (negative and positive,) that it brings when we are out.

I wonder what the Scottish nationals of this forum think of men like myself... When I wear the kilt I try to be respectful and follow the unspoken rules, similar to when I wear a suit and tie.

I lived in Southern England for a couple of years and knew a Scotsman from Fife quite well. I count him as one of my close friends. When he heard I was wearing the kilt upon my return back to the States he said (jokingly, knowing that a lot of truth is spoken in jest,) that I was silly for doing so as an American.

Jock and thescot, are we in situations like my own paying our ancestry and the Scottish Nationals a disservice or mockery?

[DubintheDam]

I bet he's a rangers supporter, thats a joke BTW. A far as I'm aware the Scots are actually Irish picts according to most historians.
People like this give a bad name to Scotland. Since leaving Ireland as a young man I have learnt that it is many things to be Irish, back home if your not born and bred there your a plastic paddy. It's so dam ignorant. Some people think they can own an identity...if you trace your family roots back far enough you will find that you come from somewhere else.

[Jock Scot]

I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. I am an American of mixed descent of which two of my many lines is Scottish (others include English, French and Danish.) I wear the kilt as an homage to those Scottish ancestors and as a source of pride for that part of my family history. I would wear my kilt more often but as I have said in previous threads it is impractical with my profession and my wife does not enjoy the attention (negative and positive,) that it brings when we are out.

I wonder what the Scottish nationals of this forum think of men like myself... When I wear the kilt I try to be respectful and follow the unspoken rules, similar to when I wear a suit and tie.

I lived in Southern England for a couple of years and knew a Scotsman from Fife quite well. I count him as one of my close friends. When he heard I was wearing the kilt upon my return back to the States he said (jokingly, knowing that a lot of truth is spoken in jest,) that I was silly for doing so as an American.

Jock and thescot, are we in situations like my own paying our ancestry and the Scottish Nationals a disservice or mockery?

I answer this question with the greatest of respect to all non Scots.

No, on the whole, none of you are intentionally paying your ancestry and the Scots a disservice or mocking them.Some of the ways the kilt is worn and the "I can wear what I like" attitude does wrankle though.

Now what I , your friend you mention and other Scots really cannot fathom is this. You are Americans, who make great play of your independence--quite rightly----so be Americans. Canadians, Australians, Dutch, German, Russian, French, English, Irish,or Wherever, they are all proud nations in their own right with a mixture of cultures and blood that go into the pedigrees of their particular nation-----just like Scotland. But your are not, however hard you try, Scottish. So why not represent your own proud nation?

Live in Scotland with a British passport, pay British taxes, shed your blood wearing a British uniform(I am not forgetting the blood spilt belonging to many nations in the many joint causes)contribute to Scotlands wellbeing and do that for a generation or two whilst not harking back(too often) to your old roots and then you are getting close to being a Scot. The same goes for any nation.Of course taken out of context this last paragraph is the stuff of major nationalist strife and I don't intend it to be.

If you delve into my pedigree, I have English, Norman, German, Viking, Scots, plus a few more, blood tracing through my veins. So a good mixture, in fact just like the rest of you and just like many of you, I try on occasion to remember my roots, but do I dress up as a Viking, a Norman knight, A German? No I don't. Why? Because I am a Scot!

However we all have a past and quite rightly some of us wish celebrate our ancestors and their achievements, but the way it is done outwith Scotland is not generally understood by the Scots; it appears to be all rather intense and rather "over the top" to us and it is this, I think, that we find difficult to comprehend.As we see it, why dress up as a Scot---play being a Scot---when you are not?

[CDNSushi]

As we see it, why dress up as a Scot---play being a Scot---when you are not?

Like everything, I suppose there are many ways to look at something. That is certainly one way. A Scot may look out and see foreigners who are playing at being Scots, but I guess I don't see that, necessarily. I think I see it from another angle.

First, the Scottish diaspora has made it so that Scots have not only settled into all the corners of the earth, but they've integrated their culture (which includes the national dress) in with the local culture to the point that it holds the same status. In Canada, I grew up around enough pipe bands and events where kilt-wearing were both represented not as Scottish, but as CANADIAN! When I attended a parade, it never crossed my mind that the pipe band might be Scottish, or imported from Scotland. No, it was a Canadian pipe band at a Canadian parade. When I saw a funeral with a piper, I never assumed that it must have been a Scot that died, but much more likely, an important Canadian... So as far as that goes, for me the kilt represents a Canadian garment as much as it does a Scottish one, so if someone were to ask me: "Why don't you represent your own proud nation?" I feel that I could reply: "I am!"

The best analogy I can give is kind of like when I see a Honda Civic or an Acura, I don't see an import... I see a domestic model, as it was assembled in Canada, by the Canadian manufacturing division of Honda, for use in Canada by Canadians.

Second, as far as cultural identity (and the clothing/national costume thereof), let me just say that if my own heritage (Czech) had a kilt-like garment, I would probably be all over it. I see my own kilt-wearing as a fashion choice and comfort issue, which I am glad to borrow from the Scots. Just like the Japanese know a good thing when they see it, this is the land of misappropriated cultural elements. The Japanese have become experts at taking all the best of what each country and culture has to offer, and make it uniquely Japanese, to the point of unrecognizability from the original. Japanese curry is nothing like Indian curry, Japanese kimchi is nothing like Korean kimchi, and J-pop music is nothing like American pop music... And yet, they happily took what they thought was something worthwhile. In the same light, I've also taken the sarong from the Sri Lankans, the Dhoti from the Indians and the kikoi from the Kenyans.

I am not ashamed of being Canadian, nor of being Czech... But rather, I don't feel that I should put on cultural blinders. When you come to my house for a BBQ, you'll probably see me in traditional Japanese garb. Why? Why not Canadian or Czech garb? Because I wear what makes me comfortable and what I think looks good, and what serves the function I'm looking for which I think is very different from the "I wear what I like" attitude. To me that would imply a lack of good reason...

So for any Scot who would look at me and assume that I were wearing his country's national costume because I wanted to pretend to be Scottish, he would be dead wrong, and I would encourage such a person to consider some other possible reasons behind it. ith:

[Coastie]

In Canada, I grew up around enough pipe bands and events where kilt-wearing were both represented not as Scottish, but as CANADIAN! When I attended a parade, it never crossed my mind that the pipe band might be Scottish, or imported from Scotland.

I had heard the pipes a time or two growing up but my first experience with an actual in person piper was the piper for a unit from the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery that came down with his unit to train with the 82nd Airborne Artillery. Seeing them marching down Gruber (a road at Fort Bragg) with a piper leading the way was one of the coolest things I saw while in the Army.

[Jock Scot]

CDNSushie.

I hear and respect what you say and indeed as Canada is a member of the Commonwealth it is relevent. However maybe it is time for the rest of the world(they are beginning to) to wear their own tartans and not Scottish ones. If you care to delve back into my old threads I did bring this point up in "Ponderings of an ancient Scot".

On the matter of cars I see Honda as Japanese, Jeep as American, Porche as German, Bentley as British.

[DubintheDam]

If you spend your summer holiday in the West of Ireland and frequent a local pub with session music on the go, you will find the band is usually made-up of a few Germans, a couple of Irishmen and Englishman.

Irish traditional music today is better than it has ever been due to this cultural mixing bowl, the Trans-Altantic sessions (both Irish and Scottish) recordings are a prime example as are their corresponding sales. Folk music is not and has never been rooted in ye ol' traditions but has always evolved with people and times.

Although Scottish music has it's own distinct style, many are in fact revived songs that have been preserved in Ireland only to return home so to speak. I like to think that the Irish kept the music alive while the Scots kept the dress alive.

The habit of kilt wearing in 'modern' times as most of us know is in large part due to the love of the Highlands as embodied by Queen Victoria (English/German) and the ensuing Victorian revival in all things Highland.

National traditions today extend far beyond borders and birthplace. Just as levels of individual expression play a more important part in all societies, so is it that costumes become a greater resource for making an individual statement and/or style. The modern fashion kilt of the recent decade is here to stay, wear it because you gay or you're a punk or just like to be different, it doesn't really matter.

Are we to say only Irish people can play Irish music, or only black people can play Jazz, or only Italians can eat pasta and drive Vespa's!

To be a Scot and say, "the kilt is only for Scots" is frankly unpatriotic.
For a Scot to say, "look at how the kilt is worn today and has increased in popularity around the world" is to be proud of this Scottish tradition.

Nothing in this world can be 'owned' and everything can be shared.

[English Bloke]

... why not represent your own proud nation? ... why dress up as a Scot---play being a Scot---when you are not?

Jock, you're seeing the whole international Kilting thing as playing dress-up. I don't think it is and I don't think many Kilt wearers do pretend (I don't dispute there are some.) I have Scottish root but that isn't my primary reason. It is why I have aquired my two Bruce tartans at no small expense, one of which is extremely rare, but I don't wear the Kilt to pretend to be Scottish. I wear it because it's comfortable and also because I'm not afraid to be different.

I mean neither you nor it any disrespect Jock but it is just clothes to me. I don't see the Kilt with the same reverence as you. If I wear a checked shirt, I'm not pretending to be a lumberjack. If I wear a white rugby shirt I'm not pretending to be an England Lock. If I pull on jeans today I don't immediately reach for my ten gallon hat. On the other hand, I can't abide pretenders who don medals they are not entitled to... so I see, in a sense, where you're coming from...

If I wear a Kilt, in my own head I'm still an English Bloke in a Kilt but often we don't see ourselves as others see us. In light of the above, I am re-evaluating my stance. Perhaps it's me who is being rude inadvertantly and I think that would be a shame as it was never my intent.

Before I make any rash decisions though, I do need to explore what my alternatives might be?...

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Dubinthdam,i like some of your points,they're sound.

Jockscot enlightened us by saying that some scots can find it hard to fathom why some like to 'play at being scots'.That is one of the most condescending things i have ever heard.Also sad,to think a respected gentleman of this forum seems to know so little of the resilience of scottish culture,and appears to miss the true lessons of his own peoples history.Should not history allow us to feel for and understand real people,and not merely be cold dispassionate facts?

When people in the highlands start touting about 'britain',they show that their families bread is or has been buttered on the side of the ruling class.That, or that the ruling class has done a job in seeing they forget the past.A painfull past that saw scots forced off lands that they had held for generations by the 'brittish'.

When these poor common folk were forced to glasgow,or the english midlands,or america,australia,wherever,because of conditions furthered by britttish ruling classes greed,what did they have that could not be taken away?Please let me enlighten you Jockscot.

Their identity,their culture,their customs,family stories,and dress.These are the things that the brave 'brittish' soldiers and the heartless factors they backed up could not take from them.Whether it be the clearances or folk having to leave the industrial centres for far shores due to depressions,or leave farms so those whom created brittain could have shooting parks,wherever they went many determined that their children,grand children etc were taught of the scotland they loved.

Through hard work and determination that sees many scottish placenames in america,canada,australia etc,they eventually had the spare money to start burns societies,caledonian societies,and begin annual highland games TO FOSTER AND CONTINUE SCOTTISH CULTURE AND HERITAGE,to remember home and to ensure their offspring did not forget.That spirit is what the ruling class scum of brittain could not kill in them.And none of their descendants who still remember,still care,will forget.

So please excuse us as we 'play' at being scottish whilst remembering a spirit of scottish pride that appears to have been watered down from the thick oaten porridge it once was to a more insipid soup that is acceptable to the glorious brittish ruling class.

No offence intended.

[Singlemalt]

My fathers parents came to Canada from Inverness. My mother family has been in Canada many generations, however she was a Kerr with Cameron, MacLeod and Mac Niel in her immediate background. I have never actually been to Scotland though I still have some contact with relatives there. However, I am emphatically not Scottish, I am proudly Canadian and tell my son's regularly that being born in this beautiful country is the equivalent of winning a lottery.

Thousands of my fellow Canadian's have served Queen and country in our military kilted. My mothers uncle died at the battle of the Somme kilted during the war that was to end all wars. Yet still young Canadians are regularly Piped home from Afghanistan in caskets draped in the Maple Leaf.

When I wear my kilts I am not pretending to be Scottish. In the words of one of my favourite philosophers of the 20th century Popeye T. Sailor "I am what am and that all what I am!"

Any Scotsman who inferred I did not have a right to wear a kilt had better be ready for whats coming!