To start with I am sorry to all I offended or upset. When I read this late last night a was tired and already in a foul mood. My comments were meant to be tongue in cheek, but were not taken that way.

First off I an a proud American of Ulster Irish heritage. Descended from the Tirowen clan, thru the O'Cahan sept as a McCluskey. My Da is 4th generation off the boat and 100% Irish.

I know from what I have read on here that there is usually spirited discussion around St Patrick's Day about whether or not kilts can or should properly be considered "Irish" and "Irish tartans". I agree that your research article was detailed and informative. Much of it I have read thru my grazing on the web about this very topic, but when I read it I felt it had a slant against the Irish in Kilts and "Irish tartans". This my have just been the mood I was in at the time, but I still feel that way.

The kilt as we know it today is 100% Scottish. No contesting that. The only difference in the begining was the use of the belt outside the plaid.(read that as blanket or cloak) The Irish had long before that worn a belted garment that created a pleating effect. These were a saffron dyed tunic called a lein. To say a saffron(solid color) garment was worn in Scotland long before the Irish attempted to adopt the kilt is misleading. A saffron garment worn belted and down to the knee is definitely Irish, just not what is called a kilt at the time.

O'Callaghan -
Here is what was said . The article goes no to make a point to state in 1901 the Royal Inskilling Fusiliers are again clad in full-dress scarlet tunic and blue trousers; not a kilt or caubeen in sight. These were not my words. I agree with you 100%


When the Ulster tartar is mentioned it was probably
made in Scotland, which I have seen no proof otherwise. He was found wearing pants, BTW the Irish National, of fabric woven in Ireland.From what I remember most likely in Dublin. But of course it was added that "Ireland was at this time being settled heavily by Scottish emigrants, so it is at least conceivable that the cloth was woven by a Scottish weaver relocated to Ireland. That continued the feeling that the article was pulling everything back to a Scottish heritage.

I should have not made the plastic patty comments and I an very sorry for that. I don't like the term. "Irish County Crest tartans" nor the so-called “national” tartans, have any official standing at all with the Irish government. Nor do most of the Irish family name tartans have any formal provenance with the families. Even the Murphy tartan was being sold “to American tourists.” And quite a few of these so-called “Irish” tartans were actually produced and marketed by Scottish interests. It would appear that many are simply designed on spec, or as requested by a customer who happens to bear an Irish surname and is looking for a “family tartan.” To me it was referring members of the Irish diaspora who knows little of actual Irish culture, but nevertheless asserts Irish identity. That is the definition of a plastic patty.

I wasn't going to type all this and probably should just stay out of this thread.

Again, I am sorry for the confusion my comments made. They were meant to get under the skin, but be understood that it was sarcasm. I know I have probably just stirred the pot more and shouldn't post this. Feel free to delete all my remarks in necessary. I hope this clears the mud a little.

Matt - nice pick up on the pleats, I noticed that too. But I would have expected a fine craftsman like yourself to catch that. I probably side traced eveyone with my earlier comments.