Traditional Civilian Highland SHIRTS

[MacLowlife]

Let's discuss shirts a little bit, since i seem to have stepped on some toes. My own practice and belief is that a Traditional Highland Civilian shirt is made from woven fabric and has a collar. It is not particularly tight or loose and if it has a pattern, it is one that does not fight too vigorously with the kilt.

That probably means most checks are OK, but probably NOT tartan. I would think certain stripes might work ( what is called in the US a "university stripe" is frequently treated as a solid in Saxon traditional clothing circles) but that might depend on the wearer and the circumstances.

I think we might agree that a white shirt is the only appropriate one for most formal occasions. In what might be called the rule of color saturation, I think there is a general theory that the darker the shirt, at least in traditional settings, the more casual the outfit. Thus, a dark colored shirt might work for a traditional shooting or hiking outfit, but not for worship services (Unless you are a member of the clergy.) I may be wrong, but I believe navy blue, dark maroon and similar colors are inherently casual, unless you are in Clan McSoprano.

While they may be historical, I believe full sleeved shirts, with no collar, or with a broad collar or even with lacing at the throat, are not traditional in the sense of modern traditional. There, I have "opened the door" for those who wish to continue debating what Traditional means. I do not mean to start that, but it is arguably part of this topic. Traditional within the lifetime of our eldest contributor, whoever that may be.

And now, on to casual traditional shirts. I am a proud Eagle Scout. I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Armed Services. I do occasionally wear shirts designed for shooting and hunting and some of them have epaulets. I do not seek them out and I generally confine their wearing to shooting-oriented events, including fundraisers, picnics, and actual kindling-the-powder shooting. I believe they also have shoulder patches. Being a manly man, I am able to fire my shotgun without injuring my shoulder, even without the patch, but the patch becomes a kind of indicator that these are specialized equipment. I do not wear these shirts for hanging out at the corner.

And I do not wear them with my kilt.

I do not belong to any organization that encourages the use or wearing of a permanent name tag or ID badge. I do not even wear the HELLO MY NAME IS kind if I can avoid them.

So for me, wearing a kilt, I do not have a tradition of wearing any kind of badges, medals or the like with my kilt, especially with a short sleeved shirt and no jacket.

But I did not invent the kilt or even contribute to the drafting of the Proper Rules for its wearing under assorted enumerated circumstances (K,PR4IWUAEC). Therefore, I will eagerly await comments from others.

I will just go ahead and say that collared knit shirts seem to be close enough to the line that they are acceptable for casual traditional highland civilian dress, as illustrated by Mael Colum's recent thread.

OK, let the wild rumpus begin.

[creagdhubh]

I always wear button front shirts from either House of Bruar or Brooks Brothers. Here are the details of what I tend to look for in a good shirt, and what many of my shirts in which I wear with my Highland attire, possess:

Day and Evening Shirts (House of Bruar and Brooks Brothers)

-Straight collar; English spread, Ainsely, Tennis, or Foward point (I avoid button downs).
-1-3 button cuff or French cuff
-Traditional to slim fit, depending on brand and style
-Center yoke
-100% cotton or cotton flannel, depending on brand and style
-Insertable collar stays
-Left chest pocket, depending on brand and style
-No monogramming on sleeve (I tend to believe it is ostentatious and superfluous)
-Solid (pink, light blue, white, and light yellow), university or pin stripe, tattersal (small and large sizes) and windowpane, variants.
-Lightly startched, with a good crease on each sleeve

Formal Shirt (Brooks Brothers)

-100% white cotton pique
-Bib front
-French cuff
-Removable strip of mother-of-pearl buttons, to replace with optional studs
-Spread, lay flat collar
-Insertable collar stays
-Medium to heavy starch
-Center yoke
-Traditional fit

I think tartan shirts are fine, but not whilst wearing Highland attire. Rather, they look far better with a pair of jeans or khakis, and loafers. I like to see tartan shirts with button-down collars (think L.L. Bean).

Cheers,

[Calico]

I think it is silly to attempt to create these rules now. I wear what I want. Please do not attempt to tell me "I'm wrong!".

[CMcG]

I think it is silly to attempt to create these rules now. I wear what I want. Please do not attempt to tell me "I'm wrong!".

I doubt that this thread has anything to do with you personally. And there is a separate sub-forum for wearing the kilt however you please:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f115/

[Cygnus]

I agree with you on almost all counts, MacLowlife. I would further add that the dark "MacSoprano" shirts that you mentioned are probably not truly traditional, though they do look okay with certain outfits.

I would say that a shooting shirt or jacket cut for the kilt would be entirely appropriate if one were shooting, stalking, or otherwise out about the woodlands and moors, and Matt Newsome and McMurdo both have lovely "shooting Argyll" jackets.

I also wouldn't worry much about the epaulettes. Since you're not wearing shoulder boards, coloured loops, shoulder cords, or other military regalia, I don't see any problem with them. In fact, a lot of the standard work shirts that I've seen have them and I've found they're handy for holding a towel in place when doing a job that really gets your hands dirty (not that I'd do such a job while wearing a kilt).

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think it is silly to attempt to create these rules now. I wear what I want. Please do not attempt to tell me "I'm wrong!".

I read both the posts above yours, and I didn't find a single mention of "rules" nor anyone telling anyone else they were "wrong."

What I did find were a lot of "I think..." and "I tend to look for..."

People are free to share their opinions.

Personally, I generally advise people to steer clear of the whole concept of "kilt shirts." You don't need a special shirt to wear with your kilt. What you have in your closet now will likely work.

Now, good fashion sense still applies. I don't think I'd advise anyone to wear their plaid flannel shirt with a tartan kilt! And some colors work better with each other than others.

But apart from that, I think the trap people tend to fall into is the need for a special "kilt shirt," and this leads to those (we all know them) who anytime they don the kilt also put on an "Errol McFlynn" pirate shirt, as if it were part of the uniform. When it fact, such a shirt is neither traditional nor historical - nor is it really modern. What it is, in my opinion, is "costumey."

Some people really like the way they look -- and in the past I wore them, as well -- but I've come to the conclusion that anything that makes the kilt look more like a costume and less like actual clothing is not a good thing, so I tend to avoid that look as much as possible.

Apart from that, my only advice to people is to give tattersal patterns a try. They look fantastic with tartans!

[Dale Seago]

. . .I've come to the conclusion that anything that makes the kilt look more like a costume and less like actual clothing is not a good thing. . .

I think that's a pretty good "rule of thumb".

Apart from that, my only advice to people is to give tattersal patterns a try. They look fantastic with tartans!

That's something that would never have occurred to me before I began spending time here. And I agree. I'm not sure whether they would be considered a "traditional civilian" shirt, but they do indeed work with tartan.

Here's a personal example from 3 weeks ago, at dinner after about 80 people spent the day thumping, throwing, and generally thrashing each other up in the Marin Headlands:



The lass with me is a Navy vet and former student of mine, who now lives down in southern California but came up for the weekend of training.

[Spartan Tartan]

I like small and subtle patterns, yet all my shirts are solid colors...mostly white. I much prefer the look of a collared shirt.

There are many well dressed gentlemen within the forum and I do take a lot of cues from them...so I suspect there are some tattersal shirts in my near future. But for now, I enjoy my solids.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Great photo, Dale, it shows off the tattersal pattern with the tartan quite well. I have a very similar shirt, but in photos the pattern doesn't tend to show well, so it comes across looking almost white, so I can't use the pictures as an example. But yours works perfectly!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Here's a photo taken last year at the Pitlochry Highland Games. The kilted gentleman looks to be a vet from the sporran and tie (though I cannot ID the regiment from the photo). But the pic shows off the tattersal pattern of his shirt with the kilt quite well.


From the same Highland Games, an older man paying close attention to the athletics.


This is from this year's Taste of Scotland festival in Franklin. Here I am in the parade (wearing my bonnet backwards - why didn't someone tell me?!)


Another tattersal shirt at the same festival.


This is from Stone Mountain 2010. All three of us kilties are wearing shirts with patterns (though the pattern on mine is too small and subtle to show in the pic).


A well dressed gent from the Stone Mountain Games 2009, adding a nice sweater vest to his tattersal shirt.


I also think that you can incorporate a patterned tweed jacket and/or waistcoat into the tattersal shirt/tartan kilt combo. A nice windowpane pattern works quite well.