indecency

[artificer]

Perhaps it is due to my age. I can remember a time when any woman was 'fair game'. When a woman could be treated in ways that in today's world would be met with legal action.

I vividly remember the trials and tribulations the woman's movement went through to gain the basics of human rights. Sure, we are not totally there yet, but we are far better at respecting people than we were when I was a teenager and learning about women.

I was taught in those days to determine if a thought or action was improper, was to reverse the question. If I were to think that a person of a different race was wrong to sit in a particular restaurant, ask myself how I would feel if told I was not welcome there.

If it is improper to ask a lady if she is wearing underwear then look at the same question, under the same circumstances, reversed, and it is still improper.

I am as careful how I sit as a lady is. I would consider my flashing someone in public to be a shameful reflection on my self-respect and my consideration of others.

I have met some who seek some sort of thrill through their kilt wearing. I have met some who wear the kilt just to be asked the question. Sorry, I do not wear the kilt for sexual titillation.

So, I do not answer 'the question'. If, because I am a kiltmaker, I am asked if the myth is true, I can usually tell that the person is seeking factual information. If a woman asks the question I look at her with the same look I would receive if I had just asked her the same thing.

If I am asked by a man, I can usually assume that they are trying to anger me, or they are looking for a date. A smile and polite refusal is all that is needed.

To paraphrase a quote from above, "Indecent is as indecent does."

Well said, Steve.

ith:

[billsides]

Have I been lifted? Yes a couple of times, it seems to go with wearing a kilt. The last time was when I was entering a Rotary convention in formal attire, two women were entering behind me and no doubt one dared the other to see what was under my kilt. One quickly felt up under the back, it being a massive tank, lifting would have failed. She then declared to her friend she had not found much. I thought it would be safe to go there regimental!

I have just spent a week at a Scottish Country Dancing school where the evening socials were held in a big gymnasium with tiered seating which we used when not dancing. There were about 80 kilted guys present and a large percentage displayed themselves, often repeatedly because few knew how to sit properly. You can often be careless on normal seats but these seats were raised so you got an eyefull from the dance floor and it was almost impossible not to look! I can confirm that most male dancers there wore black briefs. There are a few dancers who go regimental. I spotted none this time but have prior when they do burls or fast turns. Heavy kilts are no protection as they will fly up if burling fast but usually only the rear gets exposed because dancers hold their dancing partner face to face as they spin. "Polite turns" and casts during fast reels in Scottish dancing can easily lift kilts so I suspect some deliberately burl or cast fast. The women love it when it is done. One popular dance is called "Waggle of the Kilt" and is obviously designed to lift kilts as it is full of burls and fast turns and is on my club's social programme this Saturday and will set the women screaming! The tease of lifting is part of wearing a kilt, like it or not.

Bill Sides

[Riverkilt]

When I've had accidental exposure (falling off a horse, wind on a raft, chair falling over) everyone present has been most gracious whether or not I was wearing underwear.

A while back we talked about being falsely accused of exposure. That's happened to me twice. Both times by old women. Both times I was wearing black underwear.

Its pretty difficult to defend against a false accusation of exposure without at least exposing your underwear. I prefer to pull the underwear waistband up above the kilt waistband rather than lift the kilt.

We all hate to be falsely accused - and both instances angered me but I was able to stay in control and be matter of fact about the issue.

I know this isn't the same as the original post - but a bit of a branch of it.

[CDNSushi]

Nonetheless, to bring this back on topic, I think Steve summed it up best. Legal consequences probably befall those who would presume to expose someone -- not someone who accidentally exposes himself.

Now, if someone were drunk and went around flashing people, that would be a whole other ballgame. Has it happened? Probably... But nothing accidental going on there.

I've read a few threads on here where some of our members have been accused of exposing themselves (whether true or not)... But really -- even if someone WERE genuinely offended, they'd have a tough time proving it unless they took pictures. And if they did, they could be possibly taken to task as to WHY they were doing so.

Otherwise, there are occasionally consequences for simply wearing a kilt... Certainly not LEGAL action, but we've had at least one member thrown off a golf course (he did NOT expose himself in any way or behave in any ungentlemanly way -- the course staff were just being difficult) and there have been several who have gotten in trouble at work for coming kilted (again, not exposing themselves) but just by virtue of wearing something non sequitur and running afoul of closed-minded administrators or managers...

Was there a particular reason for the OP's query (other than simple curiosity or making conversation)?

[nagod]

just curiosity and conversation.

[True Blue]

In the US, common and most state laws require the following elements:

1. you intentionally exposed yourself or your "private parts".


2.in either a public area or in an area where other people were present and likely to be offended or annoyed.

If there is no intent, then there is no crime.

[Donnachaidh]

'Kilt flipping' has only happened to me twice.
First time with a loud mouth who thought he might try, but did not.
Second time with a young lady who just had to see, she did and was quite impressed.

I try to visualise and be aware of where I'm going and what I'll be doing, so for me, the occasion dictates what is worn, or not, below the belt.

[LANCER1562]

While at a bar, I had a young woman ask to see what under my kilt. I told her she could see mine if i could see hers first. She responded with an astonished "Here?" I replied "Why not, you asked me here?" She turned several shades of red and made a very hasty departure. My buddies were practically rolling on the floor laughing themselves sick.

[dutchy kilted]

True Blue answered the question well. In legal terms, there must be "means rea" - literally, "guilty mind," meaning you had the intention to commit a crime.

I have never heard of someone who was kilted who unintentionally flashed someone being prosecuted for indecency or public lewdness.

If you are going regimental and trip and accidentally flash yourself to a bus full of nuns, was that your intention?

I know there was a you tube video on this site months ago that had a drunken Scottish soccer fan pull off his kilt on camera during a newscast. Obviously he had the intent to do that.

As a police officer, if I got complaint of a kilted man exposing themselves, I would have consider the situation - did the actor lift up his kilt or did someone else do it to him? Did a breeze lift it up? Did he immediately push it back down or did he take a stroll past the schoolyard first?

I think the vast majority of rabble on this site really need not be concerned with being locked up any time soon. Well, at least not for flashing.

[Dale Seago]

In the US, common and most state laws require the following elements:

1. you intentionally exposed yourself or your "private parts".


2.in either a public area or in an area where other people were present and likely to be offended or annoyed.

If there is no intent, then there is no crime.

Yes.

I've never intentionally flashed anyone, and I've only had someone try to lift my kilt once -- in Japan, not here in the states.

It was December 1999, and I was at the birthday party of the Soke or head master of the Bujinkan martial arts organization, in the hombu or headquarters dojo in Noda. I was wearing a feileadh mor with otherwise-modern attire:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?p...&id=1199617140

At one point after sufficient pizza, sushi, wine, and beer, I was having a personal chat with the Soke when a high-level female instructor from the U.K. (and wife of an equally high-level instructor who was a former Royal Marine Commando) crept up behind me with another lass to lift the kilt portion for a peek (resulting in her husband calling me "white-****"; not to worry, I've known both Natascha and her husband for a couple of decades).

After we all stopped laughing, Soke asked me to bring him a calligraphy sheet he'd given me earlier in the evening. At that point he officially gave me a bugo or "warrior name", writing it on the sheet along with the Imperial date.

These things usually have multi-level meanings, and often are a little embarrassing to the recipient. The character for tan in the name, Tanryuu, refers to courage or a sort of "inner fierceness of the heart" which may not always be apparent but is there to emerge at need.

Inner fierceness of the heart, or perhaps a "brave heart". And remember what I was wearing.

The "ryuu" part though, is "dragon". When Hatsumi sensei awards a bugo, it often is a "dragon name" because the bugo given him by his own master, Takamatsu Toshitsugu, was "Venerable White Dragon".

So then to my name, "Courageous Dragon".

I suppose it's a good thing, as most guys have a mere "trouser snake".