Clan Tartan Appropriateness

[davidlpope]

I
All this (and OCRichard's Allen comments) come in to bearing in this thread in conjunction with the Lyon Court comment that chiefs are the SOLE arbiter of what's appropriate for their clan. The origin of a tartan is irrelevant. Other uses or applications of the tartan are irrelevant. Whatever the chief chooses, for whatever reason, at any time, IS the clan tartan. If tomorrow Lord Lovat awoke and said he had a dream and was told to tell the clan to wear Ancient Duncan or Modern Gunn, that would be the end of the discussion.

This is my thinking as well...

[Jock Scot]

I quite agree that the Clan Chief is the final arbiter over what is, or isn't the Clan tartan.

I know that it is a bit of a shock to many to discover that some Clan tartans are only a few years old, or only, at best, some 200 years old. Added to that, to then discover that there is considerable doubt over its authenticity due to the bogus claims of a brace of brothers is confusing and disheartening to some. However when all said and done the then Chief of the Clan has chosen it, he has spoken, that is how it is, and when added to the long and often grizzly history of Scotland peppered with almost daily skulduggery of one sort or another, it is all rather true to form and in its way, rather quaint and we really should not get too wound up about the finer points with the history of a particular tartan.

We Scots really don't give this Clan thing----tartan thing too much thought,on the whole we know the form about the Clan, its history, which is not necessarily the same as Clan tartan history, but still part of it. We do what we do, we think what we think and regard "our" tartan rather like a club colours rather than anything else.

[creagdhubh]

I quite agree that the Clan Chief is the final arbiter over what is, or isn't the Clan tartan.

I know that it is a bit of a shock to many to discover that some Clan tartans are only a few years old, or only, at best, some 200 years old. Added to that, to then discover that there is considerable doubt over its authenticity due to the bogus claims of a brace of brothers is confusing and disheartening to some. However when all said and done the then Chief of the Clan has chosen it, he has spoken, that is how it is, and when added to the long and often grizzly history of Scotland peppered with almost daily skulduggery of one sort or another, it is all rather true to form and in its way, rather quaint and we really should not get too wound up about the finer points with the history of a particular tartan.

We Scots really don't give this Clan thing----tartan thing too much thought,on the whole we know the form about the Clan, its history, which is not necessarily the same as Clan tartan history, but still part of it. We do what we do, we think what we think and regard "our" tartan rather like a club colours rather than anything else.

Well stated Jock, and I tend to agree with you, as well as with what tripleblessed mentioned above. For me, whatever Cluny decides as far as Macpherson tartans, is what goes, and is what I adhere to. Many Macpherson folk will also wear the Clan Chattan tartan, as the Macphersons were once (and in my opinion still should be - not Mackintosh - this is another topic all together ) Chiefs of the Clan Chattan Confederacy, and 'our race' were inherent followers of St. Cattan.

Slainte,

[Gael Ridire]

Wow, eight pages later my 2 bits:

If one chooses a certain tartan because they like it then that is just fine! Does wearing such tartan give the impression of being connected to that clan, yes. But hey, wear whatever tartan you like! Just don't state that you have a "right" to wear it. Those who have a "right" are clan members period. But to say you wear it to honor a forefather/mother then that's cool!

When I first got into my Scottish ancestry I wore the closest lineage I could trace back to Scotland - Kennedy. I wrote to be recognized by the clan chief, and was. But in time (years) it bothered me that my surname wasn't that of the clan even though I was a recognized member. When I became an Irish armiger and wrote to tell the chief, his reply was not to mix my Irish arms with his tartan. Okay. Years pasted, politics got involved with the American society leadership and I left.

Organized the O'Brien Clan and met with the clan chief who showed me that a tartan had been designed by an O'Brien downunder. However he wouldn't authorize it because tartan is not worn by the Irish in a kilt. Now I found a mill in the UK that does an ancient version of the O'Brien tartan which I dearly love and to have an 8 yrd kilt made would cost me $900 - yikes!!!!!

Recently I found sites about the PV kilts, and find this cost accepting. Face it, most only wear the kilt a few times a year. Pretty expensive for college students (my three kids & spouses). Problem with the PV kilts, the range is terrible!!! Enter the district or national tartans. I really like the Irish nation tartan! It honors my Irish heritage, yet the tartan honors my Scottish heritage, and various things are available in it too. And there's no chief to tell me what I can and can't do concerning its use (lets face it why declare allegiance to a clan chief if not willing to follow his counsel?). I'm waiting on the family to make a choice, and it may be years!!! Meantime, my one son-in-law who is Slavic by blood, attended a music fest where a vendor was selling Sport Kilts, being able to afford one, he bought the Black Stewart because he liked it. However, my wife's lienage descends from the first Stewart to America, Duncan Stewart who was banished to New England in 1653 as a P.O.W. So my wife thinks the family tartan is now the Black Stewart. One good point is the sett can be found in cotton at the fabric stores. So to wear it in honor of Duncan Stewart & it can be obtained cheaply - Hmmmm?

[Jay]

I'm a Campbell with 3 kilts - MacBeth, Cummings and Black Watch. I do not own a Campbell tartan ad I am not all that interested right now.


If anyone chooses to disagree, that is their choice. I wear what I want and choose my tartans based on personal preference.

[macwilkin]

I'm a Campbell with 3 kilts - MacBeth, Cummings and Black Watch. I do not own a Campbell tartan ad I am not all that interested right now.


If anyone chooses to disagree, that is their choice. I wear what I want and choose my tartans based on personal preference.

If I may ask, do you have Cumming ancestry? I'm not challenging you; our clan is a wee one, so it's always guid tae hear of folks wearing the Cumming tartan.

T.

[Kevin80222]

I think it is a wonderful tribute to wear a tartan in someone's honor; If a father's son were to wear the USMC tartan in respect of his father's service, I cannot think of anything more touching. Should a stepson show his love and respect for the man that accepts him and fosters him as his own by wearing his tartan, it is a grand and beautiful gesture. I would never think to question someone's choice in selecting a tartan to which they are not "truly" affiliated - it is simply a choice of fashion and I have no issue with that. I do think that should I encounter someone wearing a kilt in tartan of a dear friend as a show of loyalty and thanks for coming into their life, of a branch of their family to which they are related by marriage only but to which they feel commitment and bond, or the tartan of a military branch in order to honor their losses and service - this is this gesture that would bring a tear to my eye and make me proud to have met such a person.

I do not have my own tartan and as such wear the county tartans of Ireland - if I had my own and happened upon someone unassociated wearing my colors, I would be proud that they had been chosen - I would view their choice of my tartan with pride.

[kilted scholar]

Jay: I'm a Campbell with 3 kilts - MacBeth, Cummings and Black Watch. 
I do not own a Campbell tartan ad I am not all that interested right now.

Interestingly, according to the STA site. the Black Watch is the same sett as Campbell, but in a darker shade!

On the wider point of clan chiefs and clan tartans, the 13th Duke of Argyll only recognizes the (Ancient) Campbell tartan as a Campell tartan (apart from one or two others such as Campbell of Breadalbane, C of Loudoun and C of Cawdor belonging to different branches).

The fact that a clan chief recognizes a particular tartan or tartans as the tartan(s) of his clan is quite different from an assertion that only someone of his clan has a right to use them (whether as a tie, a blanket, a shirt or pyjama pattern or a kilt).

The former assertion means that those tartans, and those only, can rightly be called the tartans of that clan. Consequently, no user or wearer would have any basis for considering that a different tartan from those was the clan tartan.

The latter claim, if it were ever to be made, could only have substance if it were backed up by copyright restrictions, in which case the general public would not be able to get its hands on the tartan in any case.

Of course, there are a number of matters of etiquette that will govern whether, how far, when and in what situations if any, such other tartans might be used or worn ... as many other threads will indicate!

[Burly Brute]

It has been my experience to wear the kilt is to take on a bit more thick skinned attitude. If I was offended easily, I would have a stroke at a flogging molly concert.

This being said, I stake claims to the Gunn clan by way of sept Wilson. Which, if one thinks about it, is somewhat of a step-child mentality. The idea of a "sept" being grafted in, allowing those of said sept to dawn the tartan of the proprietor is similar to that of a step-child wearing his step-father's tartan.

I still maintain and agree with Jock that one tartan is preferred. As some of you may remember, I considered for a time dawning my fiancé’s tartan, only to realize I just wanted an excuse for another kilt. Through some wise guidance I have since recanted. That all being said, I may still someday wear another family tartan (being that of my father's line who I am currently estranged from entirely).

Also in line with what Jock said, I never really question a person’s reasons for why they are wearing the tartan they have chosen to wear, and if they feel the need to divulge the information, if it is not an answer to my liking I smile politely and carry on in conversation. I have too much on my plate without the addition of making it a personal quest to berate those who I disagree with.
I am glad you raised the question and it is definitely something that has been a hot-button issue for quite some time, but as the old saying goes, “when in doubt, drink more scotch.”

[Really a McQueen]

If I may ask, do you have Cumming ancestry? I'm not challenging you; our clan is a wee one, so it's always guid tae hear of folks wearing the Cumming tartan.

T.

Believe it or not, according to my late, great-aunt, there is Cumming on her side of the family (her mom was a Cummins, born in Nebraska in 1878, and G-G-grandfather Cummins was born in Ohio in 1832). It was her sister, who married my grandfather McQueen. So, the heritage is here, just diluted.