FAO Jock Scot / Phil re: Tat and the Scottish Identity

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I hate to say this but it's threads like this that make me post less and visit less on this forum. I have even stopped wearing my kilts around the house and to non highland game/bagpipe events. The comfort and confidence that first made me fall in love with the kilt has been replaced with fear, uncomfort and unease. I have stopped purchasing kilt accessories and even stopped looking for them.
When I first joined here I learned heaps. I looked to others to develop my kilted style and found that even though I'm a big guy I could look darn good in a kilt.
Now I feel as if we have shifted into a divided group. FatherBill a month it two back made comments that he felt as if he should sell his kilt and accessories. I feel the same now as he did then.

People of Scotland who still live in Scotland. If you want "others" to wear "your" national garb in a honorable and sophisticated way then share tips on style. These threads of debate on who can wear a kilt or how or whatever are useless and hurt more than help.

*sigh* I'm going to go have a pint.

One of the things that I came to realize pretty soon after I began to wear the kilt is that any time I was out and about in the kilt I would encounter people who had ALL KINDS of opinions about it, ranging from very positive to very negative, and not all of those opinions would be grounded in rational thought.

When you wear the kilt, you have to be willing to put up with all kinds of opinions and comments; and you have to learn to filter out those that you want to give heed to and those which you want to discard.

This is true in person as well as on line!

I'll end with a favorite quote of mine:

"The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed." -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.

[Donsel]

Matt: I couldn't agree more. I haven't gone to the extend suggested by Cowher but for the most part I have tended to ignore this thread. Except for when I see a post by certain posters who I know have an opinion similar to mine. I respect or at least listen to all opinions, but I don't need the competition to my blood pressure medication.

[Bugbear]

I hate to say this but it's threads like this that make me post less and visit less on this forum. I have even stopped wearing my kilts around the house and to non highland game/bagpipe events. The comfort and confidence that first made me fall in love with the kilt has been replaced with fear, uncomfort and unease. I have stopped purchasing kilt accessories and even stopped looking for them.
When I first joined here I learned heaps. I looked to others to develop my kilted style and found that even though I'm a big guy I could look darn good in a kilt.
Now I feel as if we have shifted into a divided group. FatherBill a month it two back made comments that he felt as if he should sell his kilt and accessories. I feel the same now as he did then.

People of Scotland who still live in Scotland. If you want "others" to wear "your" national garb in a honorable and sophisticated way then share tips on style. These threads of debate on who can wear a kilt or how or whatever are useless and hurt more than help.

*sigh* I'm going to go have a pint.

I can kind of relate to that... I don't even wear plaid shirts anymore.
Tartan and Highland attire just don't feel right for me anymore, and any joy in them kind of slipped away piece by piece. I also somewhat understand the feelings of fear in relation to some of this.

I have tried, though, to get a better understanding of the kilt and Highland history here on the forum. Maybe someday I'll try again: there's still a kilt, sporrans, and hose in my closet.

[Joshua]

I hate to say this but it's threads like this that make me post less and visit less on this forum. I have even stopped wearing my kilts around the house and to non highland game/bagpipe events. The comfort and confidence that first made me fall in love with the kilt has been replaced with fear, uncomfort and unease. I have stopped purchasing kilt accessories and even stopped looking for them.
When I first joined here I learned heaps. I looked to others to develop my kilted style and found that even though I'm a big guy I could look darn good in a kilt.
Now I feel as if we have shifted into a divided group. FatherBill a month it two back made comments that he felt as if he should sell his kilt and accessories. I feel the same now as he did then.

People of Scotland who still live in Scotland. If you want "others" to wear "your" national garb in a honorable and sophisticated way then share tips on style. These threads of debate on who can wear a kilt or how or whatever are useless and hurt more than help.

*sigh* I'm going to go have a pint.

I think that's the last possible thing that you should do (in regards to the kilt, NOT the pint!). Additionally, a "debate" on who should or should not wear the kilt was never my intent when starting this thread.

No one in this thread is advocating that anyone *not* wear the kilt.

And if you had never read this thread, would you have still been apprehensive about wearing your kilt?

Knowing that *some* native Scots dislike "outsiders" wearing their national dress doesn't distress me at all. Frankly, if it distresses you to know that, then there are a whole mess of other things that you probably enjoy freely that piss other people off, like drinking alcohol on a Sunday, or listening to music with your windows down in the car. I met a guy that hates my guts because I am an "escalating volume talker", that is, when I'm in a pub as the volume goes up, so does my voice and I tend to yell louder than I should...

My point is... when it comes to your own personal style, you only have yourself to blame if you let other's opinions affect you in such a way.

I think the hardest thing for most of the US folks here is the comment "playing at being a Scot", which at face value is accusatory of being a "wanna be". Thus, many of us who don the kilt to be authentic and original, feel we are being accused of actually being illegitimate and conformist.

I don't believe this is the case. But I can understand the sentiment.

[piperdbh]

I guess I'll be the odd man out and say that this thread has shown some of the most diverse opinions and has, as far as I can tell, been more civil and respectful than several others I've read over the last few years. Bravo, lads.

[Bugbear]

I guess I'll be the odd man out and say that this thread has shown some of the most diverse opinions and has, as far as I can tell, been more civil and respectful than several others I've read over the last few years. Bravo, lads.

Actually, it's probably not really this thread, piperdbh, it's something that's built up over a long time and a lot of threads.; the "several others." It might be that way from other points of view, as well.

[Bjarg Jonsson]

I remember back in the 1980s being at the Gatlinburg Highland Games, when I overhead a Scottish woman who had recently become an American citizen making comments about people "Playing at being Scots". I did not ask her if she was "Playing at being an American." I knew she would not understand, because she wanted to be in a position of superiority. However, that is not always the case. It is my observation that often Scots ex-pats take a different position. When they lived in Scotland, they had no interest in things Highland, but when they come to America things change. They are no longer surrounded by Scottish culture and thinking about what they left behind, they take an interest in it. They buy their first kilt and join a St. Andrews Society. Typically the ex-pats make good friends and treat you as kith and kin- as the cousin you are. I do not know their motives, but I hope that it is kinship.

If one wants to wear Highland attire, then wear it. Wear it well and proudly because you represent Scotland, but if you do not want to wear Highland attire do not wear it- the kinship will remain the same either way. In my way of thinking it is about kith and kin, not about a romantic version of Scotland. I believe that thinking Scots just want one to look beneath the stereotypical mythos and find the real Scotland. During WWII when those fine Canadian Highland regiments served the cause of British freedom, who said they were "Playing at being Scots"? In my opinion this is also a time when we need be more accepting of our differences and stand together.

Slainte,

Bjarg Jonsson

Aut Pax Aut Bellum

[Cowher]

*snip*. if you had never read this thread, would you have still been apprehensive about wearing your kilt?
*snip*

Absolutely. I felt this way for about two months now.

We come here to a forum of like minded people. People who love kilts. We come here to be accepted and to talk about the joys of being kilted.

These conversations we are having now do not make me feel welcome. I am interested in many cultures. Mostly cultures that were colonized or oppressed at one point. If Scots don't want me to embrace their culture then it's no longer worth the fight to me and my interest will shift to a better culture.

I a piper so I'm not going to stop wearing kilts all together but the effort and money I spend to look my best in a kilt outside of my pipe band is no longer worth it.

Actually, it's probably not really this thread, piperdbh, it's something that's built up over a long time and a lot of threads.; the "several others." It might be that way from other points of view, as well.

Absolutely correct.

[CMcG]

I'd like to go back to the now infamous "playing a being a Scot" comment. Sorry to say, but I think there are plenty of people who do just that.

Wearing a civilian kilt as though it were a costume is like playing dress-up. Now for some people, say at a Ren Faire, that is their intent. But there are others who think they are wearing the kilt as an item of traditional cultural dress, but are actually wearing a highly commercialized and derivative version of it.

If one is a Scot, born and raised, there is more room for forgiveness for looking like a rental shop tragedy. It is their national attire after all. For people outside Scotland it looks like "playing at being a Scot."

I'm not saying that one MUST dress a certain way. Xmarks welcomes all styles and types of kilts. But I think that people should make an effort to A) be familiar with the traditional style and B) find their own relationship with it, whatever that may be.

And anyone who is too sensitive probably shouldn't be wearing a civilian kilt in the first place. Many people, both on Xmarks and in the real world, just love to share their opinions about it and if one isn't prepared to deal with it, then the kilt is not a good choice of clothing for them. I'm not saying that is how it should be, just stating a fact...

[Mael Coluim]

Good grief. I wear the kilt because I enjoy it. I don't think my Scottish heritage qualifies me to wear it to another who doesn't have it. If the day came I no longer enjoyed wearing it, I would stop. But that decision would not be made in deference what others thought about my kilt wearing.

Sometimes, I think we just get to serious here. The kilt is just not for Highland wear or location anymore. The genie is out of the bottle!