The Scots Who Left

[longhuntr74]

I have no idea. ... I suspect whatever the true figure is, that Scotland would probably win?

I don't either Jock. You may in fact be right. If we are to believe what the author says in the article, though, it appears that we are headed towards surpassing Scotland in those numbers (assuming the trends continue as they appear right now...with a growing number of "Americans" claiming the kilt and a dwindling number of Scots who actually own one).

I don't bring this up to be argumentative or start a controversy...just me pondering aloud (or in text, as the case may be). You know of course (at least I hope), that I hold you and your countrymen in the highest regard.

[Jock Scot]

I don't either Jock. You may in fact be right. If we are to believe what the author says in the article, though, it appears that we are headed towards surpassing Scotland in those numbers (assuming the trends continue as they appear right now...with a growing number of "Americans" claiming the kilt and a dwindling number of Scots who actually own one).

I don't bring this up to be argumentative or start a controversy...just me pondering aloud (or in text, as the case may be). You know of course (at least I hope), that I hold you and your countrymen in the highest regard.

An interesting ponder though.

Like wise your country is held in high regard here. I well remember, the US forces in WW2 as a wee lad and to me they could have come from the moon! But I have never forgotten them. In fact I still well remember a B17(red tail fin) limping back home and a complete engine falling away----I even wonder today whether they got back to base alright. For a wee lad it was as close to the action as I was ever going to get, apart from the occasional bomb and falling shrapnel , but we in the UK have never forgotten those young people of yours.

[macwilkin]

An interesting ponder though.

Like wise your country is held in high regard here. I well remember, the US forces in WW2 as a wee lad and to me they could have come from the moon! But I have never forgotten them. In fact I still well remember a B17(red tail fin) limping back home and a complete engine falling away----I even wonder today whether they got back to base alright. For a wee lad it was as close to the action as I was ever going to get, apart from the occasional bomb and falling shrapnel , but we in the UK have never forgotten those young people of yours.

Likewise I remember my grandfather's stories of seeing the Chindits in Burma, as well as other members of the 14th Army. He loved to go see his "old comrades" when the various regimental pipe bands would play in Phoenix on their North American tours.

T.

[Lyle1]

In the third part, I find it odd that he considers the Ulster-Scots to be Irish! That point of view would skew his figures on the number of Scots who emigrated to the USA. I also do not accept his comments on the number of people in the southern US who claim Scottish descent and the numbers of Scots who settled in the south during the 1700s. He seems altogether too dismissive and fails to provide convincing arguments.

[Jock Scot]

"Dwindling number of Scots that own the kilt"?

It is something that Longhuntr74 has just written that has got me thinking. It has been said before many times, so I am not up in arms about it, but do you know, I am really not so sure that it is right. Of course we will never know the true answer, but let us think about it. Let us take now 2011 and, say, the year 1900 for comparison.

True the kilted Scots regiments are not as numerous, or as large these days but we now have The "Tartan Army" to replace them! So from that point of view nothing gained and nothing lost.

The man in the street, the crofter, sea fishermen in 1900 almost to a man did not have a kilt whereas the man in the street certainly will have more kilts in their number today as sea fishermen will too. The crofter? nothing changed there probably although perhaps more may be able to afford one these days. The kilt is now widespread in Scotland whereas in 1900 it was mainly Highland attire.

The well to do "country set" and number of kilts has probably fallen, but the well to do "city type" has grown, so I think a net kilt gain there.

No cheap kilts in 1900 like there are these days and as time goes on, probably more will take advantage of availability and price.

Hummmmm. So I do start to question the premise that there are less kilts in Scotland now than ever. Less kilt makers in Scotland for sure. Thoughts any one?

[Jaggy thistle]

I think that abou 40% of Scottish men own at least one kilt whether they wear it often is another matter ! but I think kilt wearing is increasing in Scotland my grandson even wears his to school ocasionally which has not been seen much since I was at school

[piperdbh]

I think one of the main reasons that some Scots left their homeland and came to mine was that deep down, never voiced to anyone, they had a secret desire to be...







...matchy-matchy.

[Ian.MacAllan]

Whilst accepting that we all are entitled to a point of view, I really and genuinely am not so sure about the statement above.

I, on the other hand, am not tactful enough to be unsure that preserving falsity is dangerous. Believing falsity to be true seriously impairs one's ability to reason correctly and may even drive one to seriously inappropriate behavior.

Sorry to disagree with you on this point, Jock; disagreeing with you is difficult for me.

.

[ctbuchanan]

New to the thread so I hope I don't rehash too much.

I have convened a tent for the Clan Buchanan in New England for many years and have attended games across the USA. While I agree that there are those who attend in an attempt to relive the spirit of '45, I believe that there are far more who do so to recognize their heritage. Some families obviously left Scotland centuries ago so the link for many is tenuous at best. The stories, legends and myths of Scotland abound so some cling to "old" history. But most come for the camaraderie, music, athletics, pipe bands, whisky tastings etc.

I didn't notice any mention of the movie "Braveheart" which was the best thing to happen to clan societies here and the worst thing to happen to an understanding of Scottish history. There was a huge boom in interest in all things Scottish after that movie came out. While it gave a big boost to games attendance (and society memberships), it also created (as most agree) a totally erroneous image of what it means to be Scottish. We still struggle with that dichotomy: attracting members while trying to set the record straight and convince people that not ALL Scots painted their faces blue and mooned the enemy.

Last comment: I am first generation USA (Mum was born in Scotland) and FAR more of my family here own kilts than my cousins back in Alba. So my guess is that there are more kilts in the USA than in Scotland especially if you include the utilikilt styles. North Carolina alone has more people with Scots surnames than all of Scotland. And I'm going out on a limb to suggest that there are far more pipe bands here as well (although I have no evidence to back up that claim)

Enjoyed reading the many comments as always.

[Gael Ridire]

I couldn't concur more about why people attend games. Some relive the '45 (I don't understand these), but most do to experience the festivities and all they have to offer. That is what attracted me. After joining a clan society I then began studying the history, I love history. And I think the best thing my forefathers did was leaving the ol' sod and coming to America beginning in 1621 and ending in late 1850s. As I've posted before, strapping on the kilt is a spiritual experience for me, it reminds me of who I am and from wince I came. albeit hundred of years ago.

Braveheart did do much good and some bad for history. At one game after the movie came out I argued with a guy who instead that the movie was true history. All I can say is who in their right mind believes in Holywood's version of historical events.

A little over a decade ago a study was made at Brigham Young University on how well students knew their genealogy. Why BYU? It's a private school owned by the LDS (Mormon) Church where one of the cornerstones of the their doctrine is doing one's genealogy. The study was very interesting for it showed that those who should know something about their heritage knew nothing. Nine out of ten didn't even know their grandmothers maiden names, let alone any dates and places, and forget going further back on the pedigree. They who should know, knew nothing!

I may be wrong in combining the traditions and cultures of Scotland and Ireland for me and my family, but they will know about their heritage, as will my grandchildren to be. And one of the ways is by attending Celtic festivals and feeling & hearing the culture.

I'm not interested in the modern history, I'm glad for them advancing forward and that society is uplifted by this, but it is the history that interests me, and the true history, not that presented by Holywood and romantics.