Panache Answers the "Big Kilt Questions"

[zirrow]

the kilt is absolutely originally 100% Scottish.... Period....Has everyone got that?

Excellent points, however ...



On a point of order, didn't the kilt technically originate as a Gaelic garment which would include some parts of Ireland? The Scots at the time were a separate people entirely, eventually to amalgamate with the Gaels (and others too I assume) so that now we think of the Scots having been the originators.

sigh - at least you tried Panache

[CDNSushi]

Question 12 Is the Kilt a “Pan-Celtic: garment?

The kilt is Scottish in its origins. The Scots created and wore the kilt. It is not a traditional Irish or any other Celtic cultures’ garment. However nowadays there are Welsh, Irish, Cornish, etc. tartans as well as variations on the traditional Scottish Kilt. So while it wasn’t a “Pan-Celtic” garment originally (the kilt is absolutely originally 100% Scottish.... Period....Has everyone got that? ) it is becoming one in our modern world

I suspect that those who find fault in this statement may also be the ones who look for tax loopholes when they file their returns....

I agree with this statement, because all nitpickingness aside, common parlance, and common understanding of the masses overrules the one-in-a-hundred specialist / historian / anthropologist who will go out of their way just to be antagonistic or to show off their knowledge and go to prove that this statement is incorrect.

This is not a thesis defense, people. To the common man, you show a photo of what's understood as a kilt and it WILL be associated with Scotland, and being of Scottish origin. The average joe just doesn't care as much as we might, whether the Scots were originally part of another region, or whether someone had tartan kilts before they did, or whether the whole thing originated in China! If you show up anywhere today wearing what looks like a tartan kilt, it (and you) will probably be connected to Scotland, whether you like it or not, and whether you choose to correct that assumption or not.

It's the whole "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....." You may not LIKE that.... But that's the way it is.

[Dale Seago]

On a point of order, didn't the kilt technically originate as a Gaelic garment which would include some parts of Ireland?

It originated among the Gael who lived in what is now Scotland, not the ones who were still living in Ireland.

The Scots at the time were a separate people entirely, eventually to amalgamate with the Gaels (and others too I assume) so that now we think of the Scots having been the originators.

"Scoti", from which the names Scot and Scotland are derived, appears to have been a generic term used by the Romans to describe the Gael. The later Latin word Scotia (land of the Scoti) was originally applied to Ireland, but by the 11th century was used to refer to the Gaelic-speaking part of what we today call Scotland.

In other words, the Scots were not a separate people who amalgamated with the Gael: They were the Gael. Perhaps you were thinking of the Picts in Scotland being absorbed by the Gael and their culture? If so, that was something that occurred several hundred years before the development of the kilt (or the feileadh mor) in Scotland.

[Mickey]

Beautiful Sushi... absolutely beautiful!

[xman]

Thanks for the clarification, Dale.

[seanachie]

To the common man, you show a photo of what's understood as a kilt and it WILL be associated with Scotland, and being of Scottish origin. .

While I can follow most of your argument, this line I would disagree with. I think it matters where you come from and where you were raised. I have had an equal number of people guess my ethnicity correctly when kilted.

[Mickey]

While I can follow most of your argument, this line I would disagree with. I think it matters where you come from and where you were raised. I have had an equal number of people guess my ethnicity correctly when kilted.

You seriously disagree with the fact that the average person associates kilts with Scotland?? Really?

[xman]

You seriously disagree with the fact that the average person associates kilts with Scotland?? Really?

This is my experience as well. I get asked if I'm Irish nearly as often as Scottish. The kilted Irish are all over the place on St. Paddy's day here so it's likely regional interpretation to some degree and clearly a modern view, not historical.

[seanachie]

You seriously disagree with the fact that the average person associates kilts with Scotland?? Really?

Yes, respectfully I do, using the rationale as described above. My memories include groups like the AOH and Police Pipe Bands like todays Boston Police Gaelic Column of Pipes and Drums.http://www.bostonpolicegaeliccolumn.com/ and the Pipe and Drums of the Emerald Society. http://www.nypdpipesanddrums.com/

I made my comment not to be argumentative but to illustrate the diversity that encompasses kilt wearers. I have utmost respect for Scots and thoroughly enjoyed my visits to Scotland. I was just pointing out that not everyone shares the same experiences and cultural background so where you come from and where you grow up can definitely impact how you think. 17 March, for example, is always tied to kilts for me.

[CDNSushi]

Fair enough... Although once you start up that road, it's hard to know where to stop. I suppose that I could show a quacking duck to someone and have them say "It's a chicken!" to use my own axoim...

But having said that, it kinda reminds me of the whole Monty Python scene from Life of Brian, when Reg asks a rhetorical question and it degenerates into a comprehensive list of everything the Romans did well...

Reg: They've bled us white, the b*stards. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers.

Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.

Reg: Yes.

Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.

Reg: All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?



<later>....

Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

Xerxes: Brought peace!

Reg: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh... (scornfully) Peace, yes... shut up!