Why Do Some Take Such Offense...

[Nighthawk]

I had some moron sarcastically say to me "I support you!" I asked "Oh! You support cultural equality? How progressive!" He said "Cross dressing isn't cultural." I explained the kilt to him... and he said "I know what it is. It's a f**king skirt, and only fags and cross dressers would wear one." Should I tolerate that? Personally, I'm not one to put up with stupid people being stupid. Ignorance can be fixed with education. We're all ignorant in some way, and I have had numerous occasions when someone has said to me, in an honest and sincere way, "That's a beautiful skirt." I have corrected those people by telling them what it is and what means to me, and both they and I have had pleasant experiences from it. I just have never been one to put up with people attempting to publicly humiliate others. I would never dream of calling a man wearing African clothing a porch monkey. I simply expect the same courtesy. I grew up with a Scottish grandmother, and one reason I wear the kilt is because she loved them and believed that her culture was worth preserving. The kilt is a thing that is a distinct matter of pride to me and I do not appreciate people demeaning either me or it. And then of course, there's the fact that referring to it in a derisive way also demeans women, as if a skirt is in some way degrading or beneath me. It's insulting and inappropriate on numerous levels.

If you wear because you like the way it looks, that in garners you attention, or you are trying to make some modern statement - then it is a skirt. If you wear it because your ancestors fought, bled, and sometimes died in it and for it - it is a kilt.

A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet, as the Bard once said. My sister in law says that if it's outside of Scotland, it's a skirt. It doesn't magically change from one thing or another based on wearer or geographic location. By that logic, if I were to take a French poodle to Germany, it could transmute into a Doberman if I wanted. Or if I were a German walking a French poodle, I claim it to be a rotweiller. Explain that logic to me, 'cause I don't get it.

[biblemonkey]

I had some moron sarcastically say to me "I support you!" I asked "Oh! You support cultural equality? How progressive!" He said "Cross dressing isn't cultural." I explained the kilt to him... and he said "I know what it is. It's a f**king skirt, and only fags and cross dressers would wear one." Should I tolerate that? Personally, I'm not one to put up with stupid people being stupid. Ignorance can be fixed with education. We're all ignorant in some way, and I have had numerous occasions when someone has said to me, in an honest and sincere way, "That's a beautiful skirt." I have corrected those people by telling them what it is and what means to me, and both they and I have had pleasant experiences from it. I just have never been one to put up with people attempting to publicly humiliate others. I would never dream of calling a man wearing African clothing a porch monkey. I simply expect the same courtesy. I grew up with a Scottish grandmother, and one reason I wear the kilt is because she loved them and believed that her culture was worth preserving. The kilt is a thing that is a distinct matter of pride to me and I do not appreciate people demeaning either me or it. And then of course, there's the fact that referring to it in a derisive way also demeans women, as if a skirt is in some way degrading or beneath me. It's insulting and inappropriate on numerous levels.



A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet, as the Bard once said. My sister in law says that if it's outside of Scotland, it's a skirt. It doesn't magically change from one thing or another based on wearer or geographic location. By that logic, if I were to take a French poodle to Germany, it could transmute into a Doberman if I wanted. Or if I were a German walking a French poodle, I claim it to be a rotweiller. Explain that logic to me, 'cause I don't get it.

Hey Nighthawk,

If someone doesn't get what you mean and wants to play devil's advocate for the "skirt callers" then just let them. For you and I it is a cultural and special thing that our grandmothers appreciatte and admire and that is all we need. Let those who wish wear a "kilted skirt" I'll just stick with my plain old kilt. A woman wears a skirt a man wears a kilt just like a woman wears a blouse and a man wears a shirt.

[FatherWilliam57]

A woman wears a skirt a man wears a kilt just like a woman wears a blouse and a man wears a shirt.

Bingo! We have a bingo!

[Chas]

A woman wears a skirt a man wears a kilt just like a woman wears a blouse and a man wears a shirt.

No. The British forces have worn a Battledress Blouse for years - go and tell them, they are women - if you dare!

A blouse and a shirt are two very different articles of clothing. What we today call a man's shirt is more correctly called a blouse, because it opens up from neck to hem. A shirt, correctly, only opens up as far as halfway between navel and groin (think nightshirt). The navel is called the belly button because that is where the lowest button on a shirt was.

If we are going to have these type of discussions, we really need to get the terminology right.

Regards

Chas

[kc8ufv]

No. The British forces have worn a Battledress Blouse for years - go and tell them, they are women - if you dare!

A blouse and a shirt are two very different articles of clothing. What we today call a man's shirt is more correctly called a blouse, because it opens up from neck to hem. A shirt, correctly, only opens up as far as halfway between navel and groin (think nightshirt). The navel is called the belly button because that is where the lowest button on a shirt was.

If we are going to have these type of discussions, we really need to get the terminology right.

Regards

Chas

It's not just the Brittish forces. The disaster response team I am on also uses the BDU as a uniform. One wears a shirt under the blouse, and (optionally, depending on conditions) a jacket outside the blouse.

[Geoff Withnell]

It's not just the Brittish forces. The disaster response team I am on also uses the BDU as a uniform. One wears a shirt under the blouse, and (optionally, depending on conditions) a jacket outside the blouse.

The "jacket" of Marine Service A uniforms (at least back in the dark ages when I was active) is technically called a blouse. And according to my tailor, the portion of a man's suit jacket from the waist to the hem is called the skirt!

[kc8ufv]

The "jacket" of Marine Service A uniforms (at least back in the dark ages when I was active) is technically called a blouse. And according to my tailor, the portion of a man's suit jacket from the waist to the hem is called the skirt!

By "jacket" I was referencing something like a M65 Field Jacket. While visually similar to the BDU Blouse, the jacket allows for a thermal lining and possibly a hood.

[Kintail's Lost Now Found]

I take offense when offense was meant. No one likes a bully, and that is how I perceive it when people people say it with poison in their tone. I've had well meaning people say "skirt" because it was the only word they had for it. After a brief conversation about it being a "kilt" they are very quick to remember its name. Some people are just crabs in a bucket though. They see someone happy and moving along and they have to claw them back down. Most people think they are funny when they say it, like its the new best joke in the world. Good on them for being a funny guy/girl, but when it comes to them trying to be the alpha male and bring other people down, I personally take offense. I saw it in high school when people bullied my down syndrome friend, I see it every day in the army. I just don't like bullies and I like it even less when they are uneducated bullies.

That's just my perspective though.

[Mike_Oettle]

For the record, the Afrikaans dictionary gives Skotse rokkie as the equivalent of kilt. (A rok is a dress, and a rokkie (diminutive form) is a skirt. Another word for skirt is romp.)
But the growing kilt-wearing community in South Africa is working hard to encourage the use of the word kilt in Afrikaans. Quite a number of kilt wearers (especially of the more modern variety of kilt) are Afrikaans-speaking.
The pipes, incidentally, are called a doedelsak (almost the same as in German). I quite often have to respond that I don’t play the instrument.
If someone passes a remark about my “skirt”, my response depends entirely on how it was (apparently) intended. Most of the time I either just smile and say “Thank you,” or say: “It’s called a kilt.”
Only once have I walked into a supermarket and overheard a heated discussion about whether a man can wear a rok – it was in a part of town where kilts are rarely, if ever, seen, and the upstanding sector of the community is seriously concerned about moffies (homosexuals). Nobody actually confronted me, and I got a nice smile from the cashier.
A few women have voiced strenuous objections (including my daugher and her mother-in-law), but nobody has outright told me there is anything indecent about wearing a kilt.
I get a lot of smiles – sometimes that embarrasses my wife, but she can just deal with it.
Regards,
Mike

[fingertrouble]

I find this all interesting from a gender point of view...people get upset at people challenging their gender roles, either by wearing something they think is outside their knowledge, or someone demeaning their choices by intentionally or accidentally suggesting effeminacy.

I have no problem with cross-dressing nor men wearing skirts or women wearing trousers or everthing in between. Blur the boundaries! I never understood why clothes were so 'gendered' anyway.

So although I too use the 'psychological judo' defence of being overtly nice to those who say stuff like 'Nice skirt' - although I was ruffled by one person online who said I was a 'tranny' < (his term NOT mine) in jest, not only as I've learned not exactly a good name but also wrong...but that guy has 'issues' around sexuality anyway (think closeted people bullying, that kind of thing). But if people think I am wearing a skirt/trans I don't really mind, the beard might really make them think otherwise...

But I don't mind it being called a skirt, I mean I see transgender people in London, so my little attempt at freedom and being less bothered about what anyone calls a 'man skirt' or kilt or whatever is small in the extreme.

As others have said - it might be different if you have direct clan linkage; then again I do through my partner and probably do through bloodlines somewhere (not worked that far back, I have irish so probably some scots in there ;-). Actually just remembered - I could wear Wilson via my Mum's adoptive family. I'd rather not though.

Really I do think I can wear a kilt regardless of 'clan' linkage - for years that very thing put me off and made me worry...I guess it probably does other people - if you want more people to wear them then maybe not jumping at them for not having a lineage or 'it's skirts if you're not Scottish' would help?

Only once have I walked into a supermarket and overheard a heated discussion about whether a man can wear a rok – it was in a part of town where kilts are rarely, if ever, seen, and the upstanding sector of the community is seriously concerned about moffies (homosexuals). Nobody actually confronted me, and I got a nice smile from the cashier.

moffie is a very derogatory Afrikaans slang word, for those that don't know. Think '******' / 'queer'. It's not 'homosexual'. Glad no-one confronted you though, and it came off well. Those who are trans have to put up with a lot of , err, kak?