Why Do Some Take Such Offense...

[Bugbear]

In the back of my mind, the sense is hatching that what one considers traditional is heavily influenced by what one grew up seeing or experiencing; this may or may not actually be fully traditional, but has the feeling of normality and familiarity. Alternatively, this might apply to the time and situation of one's initiation into a custom or tradition in a similar way.

In other words, that's the way it was done when I grew up, so it feels right. Then someone comes along and says "No! it is done the way I grew up seeing it done!"

Just a thought.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Bug bear,I think you're dead on.
Folk who don't understand why a Scottish influenced holder of the kilt and it's cultural meaning would not be content(I did not say offended) with it being called a skirt probably don't quite have the insight you are showing.

I'm no expert,just another forum member of Scottish stock trying to express how my family culture gave the kilt to me and taught me how my forefathers viewed it.I'm taking the time out to express what it means to me and my kin,including the Scottish ones,in an endeavour to offer at least one explaination why some may not accept hearing the kilt called a dress.

If any think that posts like mine or Raphaels concerning what the kilt is or not are off topic then they obviously don't understand the issue.

The post's saying that 'he who takes offence is a fool' are intruiging.Yes I agree there are times when taking offence is an uneeded overeaction that may make the offended look foolish.Are those posting this doing so only in regard to the issue of someone calling the kilt a skirt,or do you run that standard across the board in life?(Now that's a bit off topic.Just curious.)

[robthehiker]

The post's saying that 'he who takes offence is a fool' are intruiging.Yes I agree there are times when taking offence is an uneeded overeaction that may make the offended look foolish.Are those posting this doing so only in regard to the issue of someone calling the kilt a skirt,or do you run that standard across the board in life?(Now that's a bit off topic.Just curious.)

I think it's generally but not universally applicable.

[Father Bill]

While one's interpretation is by choice and can be controlled by thought, one's emotions are an honest and unplanned reaction, thus offense cannot be criticized, merely the response that can be controlled.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Rob and Father Bob,I agree,and see what you mean.

Raphael,a reply to your last post so that you are in no way left feeling that I was trying to put you down,or the kilt you wore on your wedding day...

In one of my earlier posts,when I gave examples of champagne only being recognized as such now if it indeed comes from the Champagne area of France,I do apologize if you felt I was implying that if you are not Scottish then you can't wear the kilt.Or that if your kilt is not made in Scotland,it can not be a kilt.On re reading your reply and then again my own post,I can easily see why you may have thought this.

I brought up that example to illustrate how much meaning a name can have to those whom have an attatchment to the item in question,on historical,cultural and family levels,not to mention even financial(eg copyright for merchandise sales)levels.

I look at it this way:There are those who may say that calling the kilt a skirt is not really giving it a name,rather it's just a generic form of description.Well,how many warm looks and kind words would members of this 'semantics' school of thought get if one of them went into a vinyard in Champagne,France,and after perhaps a wine tasting session,walked up to the French head wine man and told him that he just made fruit juice?To me, this would indeed show ignorance,at the very least.Also,if that head wine man took the chance to help this imaginary fellow see that champagne is actually a far cry from just fruit juice,would any one think the head wine man is over reacting?

Raphael,you obviously have great respect and admiration for both the kilt and the Scottish meanings and traditions that go with it.I don't believe a non Scot in the kilt is really a man in a dress,nor that a kilt faithfully made outside of Scotland can't be a real kilt.I did say that in my view your kilt is unusaual,but that was not meant as derogatory.My own opinion,when asked for, that I am comfortable in seeing it as a kilt,and that you look great in it, was geniune.

[Peter Crowe]

Bug bear,I think you're dead on.
Folk who don't understand why a Scottish influenced holder of the kilt and it's cultural meaning would not be content(I did not say offended) with it being called a skirt probably don't quite have the insight you are showing.

I'm no expert,just another forum member of Scottish stock trying to express how my family culture gave the kilt to me and taught me how my forefathers viewed it.I'm taking the time out to express what it means to me and my kin,including the Scottish ones,in an endeavour to offer at least one explaination why some may not accept hearing the kilt called a dress.

If any think that posts like mine or Raphaels concerning what the kilt is or not are off topic then they obviously don't understand the issue.

The post's saying that 'he who takes offence is a fool' are intruiging.Yes I agree there are times when taking offence is an uneeded overeaction that may make the offended look foolish.Are those posting this doing so only in regard to the issue of someone calling the kilt a skirt,or do you run that standard across the board in life?(Now that's a bit off topic.Just curious.)

I was going to take no further part in this discussion but I am drawn in again because I agree with much of what AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH says, and because the OP asked why people feel offended when someone calls a Kilt a skirt, with a clear invitation for those of Scottish and Irish heritage to respond.

Many of us who are Scots (or Irish or descendents of the respective diasporas) have tried to explain patiently what the kilt means to us and why we might sometimes get a wee bit 'nippy sweety' on occasion to remarks about skirts especially when they are obvious jibes designed to belittle us and our culture.

I (and others) have stated that generally I will try to ignore it or laugh it off, but sometimes if I feel someone is trying to bully me (because that is what they are doing), I will respond with some acerbic remark usually in the form of a question, though generally I am mild mannered and easy going. I never physically hit them, I haven't been in a physical fight since I was a boy of fifteen or sixteen because I am a civilised middle aged man about to celebrate my 45th birthday this coming November not a ned or thug.

Is it too much to expect that when people respond to the OP's question with honest sincere measured posts that others respond to what was stated without snide remarks about the foolishness of those who may (occasionally) take offence. You don't know about their experience, or the social situation they were in when they felt offended.

[Mike_Oettle]

The strangest response I have had to my wearing a kilt was from a Scotswoman whom I have known for years, but had not seen me kilted before.
Spotting me in a supermarket wearing my Botswana tartan kilt, she said to me: “That’s not a tartan.”
I responded: “It’s not a clan tartan.”
She said: “It’s definitely not a clan tartan.”
She seemed to be saying that if it was not in clan tartan it was not a kilt.
But then what about all the Scots who have no clan tartan and wear district tartans?
Regards,
Mike

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Mike,jump across to see Woodsheals fascinating thread '275 years'.Some great links,and if you are interested,more of my personal opinions there.Touching on district tartans,that's the only reason I'm giving you the nudge.Not because what I say need mean anything to anybody!Great thread over there though!

[Doc Canary]

So someone called your kilt a skirt. Big deal. The entire discussion smacks of immaturity and insecurity. I am especially disappointed in some of the responses from our forum members.
Many of us are not of Scottish ancestorary, have nothing against those of you who are, and don't feel any reason for the fact to keep us from wearing a kilt.
We don't particularly care to wear tartans, and favor the more modern style kilts. It is just our way of wearing a kilt. Pin stripe kilts are fine even if is not something you would not wear.
If you live in the US and wear a kilt in public, the skirt comment should not be unexpected. It should not happen, but it does along with many other inaccurate thoughts and or comments as to whynyou are kilted. Does not change the fact that you know you are wearing a kilt for what ever reason of your choice. If you choose to see the event as a techable moment (and become historically and/or ancestorally pedantic as offen occurs here) have a good time. I am going to keep walking and enjoy my time out in my kilt.

[O'Callaghan]

English has such a large vocabulary there must be something amiss when a problem with words can't be resolved.

Robe and gown seem to be fairly universal terms applicable to garments for man woman or child.

Skirt would seem to be perfectly adequate too - many people would use the term for a kilt perfectly correctly according to normal usage, but then you get some larrikin using it as an insult.

Responding with violence seems rather dangerous, and one could hardly engage in a battle of wits - taking on an unarmed opponent as it would be.

It is indeed a conundrum as to the best course of action.

Possibly a choice between trying out one of the wittier verbal responses and just ignoring the fool, depending on the circumstances.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

I think Anne has hot the nail on the head. Not everyone calling a kilt a skirt has the same intent, and it is foolish to get upset by someone who never intended to offend you. Probably it is still rather foolish even if they did, but those are still two rather different situations. I like the comment about a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent, and that is certainly what the second situation can become, if not something even worse.

Also, as she said, it is perfectly correct English usage to refer to a kilt as a skirt, but that brings us back to intent. If you know it is more specifically a kilt, and perhaps that calling it a skirt will offend some people (although not me), then why would you do so? Perhaps to annoy?

On one occasion a lady told me she liked my skirt, I thanked her, and only then she apologised for calling it that, implying that she had only just remembered that it was called a kilt. Clearly she had no intention of saying the wrong thing. If a man said it I would be more suspicious, but that has never happened to me (yet). I am not one to turn down a compliment from a lady, especially not based on something as trivial as terminology.