Food For Thought

[Paul Henry]

That is exactly how I took it, Jock, but there is a more serious side to this. As you know, the majority of members here are not Scottish, not even British, and, as such, unlikely to appreciate the finer nuances of nationality raised in your piece. I have no doubt, actually, from what I read in other posts that many here hang on your every word as the fount of all knowledge respecting matters Scottish, and Highland in particular. In actual fact, as you have plainly told us, neither you nor any of your guests have experienced much, if anything, of the day-to-day life of Scotland during their combined years. This is not meant to decry their opinions in any way, but it is as well to view them objectively for what they are. Opinions and nothing more.

Agreed , and this was exactly my point in my earlier post. it wasn't an attack , simply pointing out that there are other views and opinions , equally as valid.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,
Thanks to you and the Mrs. for this most interesting post. What great fun! Of course, I compared my answers to those of your friends, except for those questions that reflected issues discussed on this forum, I was surprised at how my answers would have fit in with those of your friends. As was discussed above, this probably reflects the fact that my military background and age are similar to those of some of the men in your group. I do have one question: do you think these gentlemen would "understand" that those of us with a strong Highland heritage wear the kilt to acknowledge that heritage and to honor our forefathers?

I don't honestly know Mark as we have never discussed that point. They must be well aware that parts of the world are clinging to their Scots(others too)roots. The impression I get, is just like I was when I found this website, I think that they are somewhat confused and ammused-------not upset in any way-------that the USA the land of the free seems to have taken to Sottish kilt, however we all are aware that the civilian Scottish culture is celebrated fervently in Countries of the Commonwealth. After all we ALL have roots wherever we live in this world. In a nutshell, I think it is the degree that these Scottish roots are celibrated outwith Scotland that causes confusion amongst some of us.

If you note the answers given about "where they wear kilt " from the "survey", it does seem to indicate that there is a reluctance to wear the kilt outwith the UK, but it would be unwise to conclude from that too much I think, other than its just one of those "conventions".

[Ancienne Alliance]

Thank you for starting this very interesting thread, Jock.


Best,

Robert

[Jock Scot]

In actual fact, as you have plainly told us, neither you nor any of your guests have experienced much, if anything, of the day-to-day life of Scotland during their combined years. This is not meant to decry their opinions in any way, but it is as well to view them objectively for what they are. Opinions and nothing more.

Phil I had hoped rather better of you than the rather snide remarks about me and my friends. However I have no intention of justifying my, or my friends, Scottish credentials to anyone, least of all you.

However, Duke, or, dustman-----soldier, or, farmer----- we are all allowed an opinion. How anyone can take 9 people's views expressed and presented in a fun way as anything other than what it is, well, frankly they need to get a life!

[Jock Scot]

--------
I know you left the Highlands and spent quite a few years in England making a living. Did you deny your heritage during this time? Did you give up wearing a kilt? Or did you wait until you returned to the Highlands before donning a kilt again?
Jock I am not trying to be confrontational and respect your knowledge on all things Scottish. However I wonder why you insist that a Lowlander should not wear a kilt, or anyone not living in the Highlands, or anyone of Scottish Heritage are included in this? Am I missing a lot of history? If so I would appreciate if you could enlighten me.
I ask this with all due respect.
I lift a glass to you and acknowledge your right to think and say what you will.
Kindest regards.

I never really left the Highlands as at the drop of a hat I was back home in Scotland. I was the son of a Naval officer and until I was aged 7 my Grand parents looked after me whilst my parents went off to war. But our base was always home in the Highlands after the war.

No, we were always Scots in England and proud of it, as were my parents. I soon lost my accent though , in spite of my efforts not too! When I was of an age to discover girls the kilt was a REAL asset! It was a bit frowned upon to wear the kilt out of the Highlands -------but try telling that to an 18 year old with an advantage over his mates!

Early in my 20's I inherited my Grandfather's(he and my father died in the same week) property so what to do? A major growing up situation landed in my lap! Against all the well meaning wisdom at the time I decided not to sell "our bit" of the Highlands. Frankly I made a rod for my own back as there was no choice but to work my a*** off to keep the Scots patch from going to the wall. OK, my choice and I don't regret a second of it. So no I never really left Scotland, full time, as I needed to regularly venture north to survey the rescue------yes that is what it was------of course there was the added bonus of having a salmon to catch, grouse to shoot and stag to stalk.

I was always firmly instructed at an early age that the kilt was Highland attire. It was always said, (I can't remember the exact number, but I think it was 12) that in reality only a certain number of clans were actually entitled to wear the tartan kilt and every one else was jumping on the bandwagon.------------oh dear I can see pages of discontent over that statement!!---------. The reception in Glasgow from the locals when I used to visit my mother kilted at the military hospital where she was a surgeon only confirmed what I had been told as the contempt for the kilt was obvious even to a wee lad.

So my views are coloured by these events and even to this day I am hugely amused by the Lowland kilt experts! It is how I was brought up I suppose. In fact I am glad things are changing as the future of Scotland needs a united front and this petty bickering need putting aside, but that does not mean that they should be forgotten.

[Phil]

Phil I had hoped rather better of you than the rather snide remarks about me and my friends. However I have no intention of justifying my, or my friends, Scottish credentials to anyone, least of all you.

However, Duke, or, dustman-----soldier, or, farmer----- we are all allowed an opinion. How anyone can take 9 people's views expressed and presented in a fun way as anything other than what it is, well, frankly they need to get a life!

I truly did not intend my remarks to sound in any way snide, Jock, and if this is the case then I must sincerely apologise. Similarly I welcome any opinion expressed, whether or not I agree with it, and do hope that my post did not give any other impression but that. If it did then, again, I do apologise.
As to your friends credentials, you have quite succinctly described their background and upbringing together with the fact that none of them have actually lived and worked in Scotland, no doubt none of them were educated in Scotland either, and so they cannot be considered remotely typical of Scots people in general and Highlanders in particular. This was the point I was trying to make, obviously one not to your liking but my opinion nevertheless.

[Jock Scot]

I think it is you who are making assumptions of where my friends have lived, although, I do know for a certain fact the military men have been based in many places around the world in their time! Legal men and even farmers can, in some circumstances, operate both sides of the border you know.

Thank you for the apology, which of course I accept.

[saxandpipes]

Very interesting thread Jock, thanks for posting.

Cheers,

Michael

[saxandpipes]

I never really left the Highlands as at the drop of a hat I was back home in Scotland. I was the son of a Naval officer and until I was aged 7 my Grand parents looked after me whilst my parents went off to war. But our base was always home in the Highlands after the war.

No, we were always Scots in England and proud of it, as were my parents. I soon lost my accent though , in spite of my efforts not too! When I was of an age to discover girls the kilt was a REAL asset! It was a bit frowned upon to wear the kilt out of the Highlands -------but try telling that to an 18 year old with an advantage over his mates!

Early in my 20's I inherited my Grandfather's(he and my father died in the same week) property so what to do? A major growing up situation landed in my lap! Against all the well meaning wisdom at the time I decided not to sell "our bit" of the Highlands. Frankly I made a rod for my own back as there was no choice but to work my a*** off to keep the Scots patch from going to the wall. OK, my choice and I don't regret a second of it. So no I never really left Scotland, full time, as I needed to regularly venture north to survey the rescue------yes that is what it was------of course there was the added bonus of having a salmon to catch, grouse to shoot and stag to stalk.

...

Jock, you've successfully planted a rather romatic image in my head (no doubt in others' too) of Young Jock living the real-life Monarch of the Glen.

I'm beginning to see where you're coming from too- regarding the "new" embracement of the kilt by lowlanders...

I still think that they differ in situation from say the Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders in that while at times the kilt (pipes and drums etc.) might have become somewhat old-fashioned, there was always an embracement of one's Scottish (Highland) heritage.

I wonder how long it takes an Indian family living in the UK to stop wearing saris to weddings- and stop thinking of themselves as "Indian", at least in part anyway.

Not wishing any offence or misunderstanding, but I wonder how many of your friends have found themselves in the position of being "immigrants".

Cheers,

Michael

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Very interesting follow up discussion here.

To provide a counter-point to those Scots who would be reluctant to wear the kilt outside of the UK, I will add my own experience of meeting numerous Scots ex-pats who never had the desire to wear a kilt until they came to the US.

Perhaps this is due to the negative attitude about the kilt that Jock alludes to, which is sometimes encountered in Scotland (only 12 clans "entitled" to wear the kilt! All others just poseurs? Really?) I imagine such an attitude could make many reluctant to even think about wearing the kilt.

But when they come to the US (or Canada) and see how so many of Sottish heritage embrace the kilt proudly, and no doubt have to field a lot of "where is your kilt?" questions when their accent is heard, suddenly the kilt seems like a good idea!