Food For Thought

[Taygrd]

Well, Jock I did not take your original post for anything other than what you said. I believe you qualified it quite well to begin with and it was interesting to see the responses. It is an odd world, some folks try to validate what they do and say "everything is okay as long as I am happy with it" then become upset when someone is offended by what they do. Respect is a two way street: some folks become upset when a person dislikes what the do with the kilt, other become upset when someone does what they feel is disrespectful with a kilt.
This reminds me of a teenager who sticks a bone in his knows and wonders why everyone is staring at him.

[Phil]

Quite correct on the legal systams Phil. Nevertheless, there you go, Phil, splitting hairs again and whilst doing so, drawing the wrong conclusions. Why be so grudging? The Judge is trained in English law and sits in the North of England whilst having a Scots home, the same goes for one Barrister and the other Barrister , now retired back to his home in the Highlands practiced not too far from where I think you live. Come Phil lighten up!

He would be an advocate then if he practised in Edinburgh, which you are quite correct is where I live. Barristers operate in England which I really would have expected you to know. There I go splitting another hair. Forgive me for jumping to conclusions but with so little to go on it is sometimes necessary.
Perhaps I should lay my cards on the table and be straightforward instead of participating in this verbal ping-pong. My contention is that the individuals you refer to come from a background and upbringing and move in a social circle quite removed from what many here have probably experienced, and I count myself among that number. But perhaps more importantly, their exile from Scotland, whether by choice or economic necessity, gives them no licence to pontificate authoritatively upon the life of that country, kilt-wearing included. But then there are so many who consider they have a vicarious right to do so simply from having read a book or two or watched a film or television programme.

[Jock Scot]

Phil, I had rather thought that we are born into different backgrounds and that is the way things work out in life. You, me,----- everyone have no choice about that. It is what happens from then on that is open to debate, although in the end, what we make of our opportunities is down to the individual. I may be pointing out the painfully obvious but, who ever said life should be fair?

No one is pontificating, all that was done was that honest questions were asked and honest answers were given and I don't actually think that there was any opportunity to pontificate! I posted the questions and answers of a very funny few hours spent with friends as food for thought for those that might be interested, nothing more and I am sorry that the menu was not to your liking.

I do know the correct terminology, but as happens in life I made a slip up. I have absolutely no problem accepting the fact. It is surely something we all have to learn early in life that mistakes are made and we all make them.

[tkdog]

Since I am still fairly new here, and in any case not qualified to provide meaningful comment on almost any of the topics on this forum - I rarely do.

However, I have to say that I’ve really enjoyed reading through this thread with all its history and debate. My imagination is busy with stories of Scottish childhoods where the kilt was a way of life, and my own (Western NY state) childhood where I learned of kilts and Scotland from history books instead of my Scottish ancestors – of whom I was unaware until I was already an adult. As for me, I am simply happy to have to opportunity to share in the varied insights of all the members here.

Jock – thanks to you and your bride for having the imagination to pose these questions to your friends, and taking the time to share their answers here. You undoubtedly faced your share of incredulity as you tried to explain to your friends about all of us and our colonial fascination with all things kilted. In any case, we might not all agree with their opinions, but as a (very) amateur anthropologist, I find your wife's alternative after-dinner game results a rare gem. I look forward to the "Questions to the Scottish Kilted Old-Timers" 2.0

Pete

[Micric]

Jock,

What surprised me, was that so many had Considered wearing a tartan, other than their own!
I see some "Disagree" with you.
This causes me to ask what is there to "disagree" about when this is the result of a friendly- amongst -friends survey?

Thanks for this thread, with ( to me) the Mostly predictable answers to your wife's questions! Great fun, and wait with interest for the second installment!!

Richard.

[Ryan Ross]

I'm late in seeing this, but it provides some very interesting insight! Thanks, Jock.

NOTE! On inspection they were all(9) pleated to the sett!

Oh dear. Embarrassment.

Now, it would be very interesting to see the responses to the same questions put these gentlemen's sons and grandsons!

Very true!

[Phil]

Phil, I had rather thought that we are born into different backgrounds and that is the way things work out in life. You, me,----- everyone have no choice about that. It is what happens from then on that is open to debate, although in the end, what we make of our opportunities is down to the individual. I may be pointing out the painfully obvious but, who ever said life should be fair?

I believe you are reading something into my comment that isn't intentionally there, Jock. That you choose to decry what I have posted as an "us and them" debate does you a disservice but if that is the way you choose to rationalise the debate then so be it.
You will forgive me for thinking that it is sometimes the prerogative of certain members of society who, for reason of birth, wealth, title or whatever, to then believe themselves a cut above their fellow man and that this alone should allow their views to prevail over that of others. I think from your quoted comment we are left in no doubt where you stand on this.

[carlb]

We have a dear family friend in New Jersey who was born in Scotland (near Edinburgh, I believe), and emigrated to the US 40-50 years ago. Extrapolating from the number of years of kilt-wearing revealed in your informal poll, I suspect Mr. Mitchell is roughly the same age as you and your friends, Jock, perhaps a bit older. I would see him in a kilt a few times per year; St. Andrew's Day services at church, and one or two other celebratory occasions. There is a relatively active and seemingly large (although diminishing by the year) St. Andrew's Society in the area, the vast majority of whom appear to be ex-pat Scots as opposed to Americans of distant Scottish heritage.

I think I will pass your "poll" onto him, and see if he'd like to gather some anecdotal data points. It would be interesting to get a Scot-not-living-in-Scotland perspective on this matter. My guess, based on observation, is that a number of Scots (at least in the US) become just a tad more "Scottish" than when they actually lived in Scotland. I'm sure there are myriad reasons for this, and probably more than a couple of doctoral dissertations could be written on the matter.

Thanks for sharing. As with any cultural matter, the "Old Guard" and the "Young Turks" will likely never see eye-to-eye on all matters regarding the kilt, but I appreciate that we've got a place where both can be heard.

[Jock Scot]

Oh come on Phil, this is getting tiresome! Try telling a child dying with cancer and its parents, or a young soldier with his leg blown off, or trying to tell someone that their house has just burnt down that life is fair! It isn't and so far no one has come up with an answer to that. Any one with half a brain would wish it were otherwise in all aspects of life, but sadly it is not.

Now can we get back on topic?

[Jordan]

Personally Jock I quite liked the questions, altho I would probaly only agree with about 75% of the answers(I like my Utilikilt and different tartans) but it sounds like a god time was had by all and I would have loved to hear the conversations sparked off by the questions themselfs.

Jordan