The Scots Who Left

[Phil]

It highlights a problem that I have seen on this website more than a few times and I think having a couple of UK mods to interpret has helped here. I think that on the whole the use of words (not including expletives) is far more robust in the UK and even more so in Scotland and whilst that is not even noticed here, it most obviously is when others(apart from Australians!!!!) outwith the UK, read what we say do the misunderstanding start to appear. It is a same words different emphasis of meaning situation.

I have found that on this website that has mainly a North American membership that I really have to choose my words extremely carefully to avoid misunderstandings and the ire of the mods. Hence my oft seen editing of my posts. Fair enough, but if I was writing to someone in the UK I would use half the words and different ones that I use here and cause no offence whatsoever.

Oscar Wilde wrote in 1887 "We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language." so it is nothing new. I have been similarly censured by the transatlantic mods for describing an individual as a "bampot", here quite a harmless jibe but misconstrued by them nevertheless. So I have to concur with your sentiments.

[Bugbear]

Jock, I apologize for any misunderstandings of that nature I have had. I suppose there is a generation gap, as well, that may cause some confusion.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, I apologize for any misunderstandings of that nature I have had. I suppose there is a generation gap, as well, that may cause some confusion.

You have nothing to apologise for, Ted and indeed yes the age thing, that too.

[Father Bill]

Jock - one of the most thoughtful posts I've read here since joining. You're absolutely right about the difference in use of language. The word "playing" has a very different connotation here, and yes, in North America we have been taught to be very, very careful about what we say.

Thank you so very much for this post.

[kilted hillbilly]

I must have missed the 'part three' you are referring to. For anyone to say that not many Scots immigrants settled in the south is a gross error. HUGE numbers of Scots and Scots-Irish settled in the south. There are more people in North Carolina with Scots surnames than in all of Scotland. The Scots were a major part of southern and hill country history and were responsible for settling the areas of Tenn, W. Va, Ark, Miss and on into the west. I'm sorry I missed that one or I would have set the record straight right away. Just a quick scan of the officers of the Confederacy would correct that misconception right away.

ct, here is the part I was referring to." While all areas of the US have been affected, much of the dynamic for this new heritage has come from the American South, a region which ironically attracted few direct migrants from Scotland throughout the 19th and 20th centuries".

[macwilkin]

ct, here is the part I was referring to." While all areas of the US have been affected, much of the dynamic for this new heritage has come from the American South, a region which ironically attracted few direct migrants from Scotland throughout the 19th and 20th centuries".

That statement is correct; after the Revolution, there was a significant drop in Highland immigration for a time, due to a fairly strong anti-Highlander bias among the American rebels/patriots, who saw the Highlanders of the Cape Fear River Valley of North Carolina and upstate New York (the two largest Highland settlements) as largely Loyalist in sympathy -- Georgia had anti-Scottish immigration laws on the books at one point, and the Rev. John Witherspoon, himself a Scot, had to convince Jefferson to remove a comment about "foreign and Scotch mercenaries" from the first draft of the Declaration of Independence. One captured Scottish officer told of being physically and verbally abused by American civilians during the Southern Campaign in 1780-1781. All of these things are documented in Szaz's Scots in the North American West, 1790-1917 (University of Oklahoma Press, 2000).

My own Highland ancestors came much later, and instead of heading South, arrived in Canada, dropped down to Ohio and then pushed west to central Iowa, where they settled among a fairly large population of Scots.

T.

[Foxgun Tom]

Sorry for going off topic! Jock, this has to be one of the most accurate posts ever, on X marks the Scot!

We all share common bonds on the way we dress, sometime's culture, history and off course language on this forum. Its ironic that at times the very same lanuage and its meanings are lost or misunderstood!

All the best

Tom

I quite accept that unless you have experience of a situation it is very difficult, on occasion, to understand another point of view and I think sensible discussion, such as we are having here, does highlight the problem to all, makes us aware of it and hopefully makes us ask ourselves what is really being said. Inevitably we are bound to misunderstand all too often.

This "playing at being a Scot" is just a turn a phrase that the Scots use and should be regarded as nothing more. Although, as we now know, it does seem to rankle with some outwith Scotland.

It highlights a problem that I have seen on this website more than a few times and I think having a couple of UK mods to interpret has helped here. I think that on the whole the use of words (not including expletives) is far more robust in the UK and even more so in Scotland and whilst that is not even noticed here in the UK, it most obviously is when others(apart from Australians!!!!) outwith the UK, read what we say do the misunderstanding start to appear. It is a same words different emphasis of meaning situation.

I have found that on this website that has mainly a North American membership that I really have to choose my words extremely carefully to avoid misunderstandings, the ire of the readers and of the mods. Hence my oft seen editing of my posts. Fair enough, but if I was writing to someone in the UK I would use half the words and different ones that I use here and cause no offence whatsoever.

Also added to that, on this site, there does seem to be an almost a slavish wish to spilt hairs over such minute details that rightly or wrongly I put it down to trying to grasp at straws in justifying whatever it is you are trying to do. Take the dreaded "white hose" discussion. I have almost given up trying to dress up what I say for the international community on this subject, but new members do deserve a reasonable answer to their reasonable question. My honest and natural answer to anyone in the UK would be "if they are all you have, wear them, if you like them then wear them, if you don't like them then don't wear them". If I answered like that here I would be accused of being blunt etc.etc.etc.etc................well alright, I am accused of that anyway!

So I am not saying I am(we are) right you are wrong by any means, but likewise you outwith the UK need to understand that more often than not no offence is intended, we just phrase and understand things differently, that is all and do not necessarily mean what you think it means! It is a worldwide problem that the Internet highlights perfectly, I suggest.

[kilted hillbilly]

In response to cajunscots post.^Even better,shows that they were here much earlier than I thought.Thanks for the reply.

[macwilkin]

In response to cajunscots post.^Even better,shows that they were here much earlier than I thought.Thanks for the reply.

Yes, but many of them left for Nova Scotia or other British colonies after the Revolution, given their Loyalist or neutral stance in the recent unpleasantness. As an example, the noted Flora Macdonald returned to Scotland after the Revolution, as her husband was a noted "Tory" that opposed the American cause. That's not to say that all Highlanders left, but the Highland Scottish communities in the former North American colonies suffered quite a bit because of their collective stances during the rebellion.

T.

[kilted hillbilly]

Yes, but many of them left for Nova Scotia or other British colonies after the Revolution, given their Loyalist or neutral stance in the recent unpleasantness. As an example, the noted Flora Macdonald returned to Scotland after the Revolution, as her husband was a noted "Tory" that opposed the American cause. That's not to say that all Highlanders left, but the Highland Scottish communities in the former North American colonies suffered quite a bit because of their collective stances during the rebellion.

T.

I agree. But what about us "Hillbillys",which have been noted for their Irish and Scottish roots? " Between 1715 and 1776 some 250,000 of them arrived, mainly in the Chesapeake Bay region, and settled all along the east coast, particularly in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, North and South Carolina and later in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and beyond. A second wave of Scottish immigration came during the late 1800's and most of these Scots settled in the northeastern U.S. in the larger industrial cities, and included such worthies as Andrew Carnegie and Alexander Graham Bell."-from ancestry.com
What is meant by "later"? after 1776? Did they settle along the east coast and later move west? Probably.