Surprise with the US Air Force Reserve Pipe Band Tartan

**mookien** · 6th November 11, 02:43 PM

Barb: I can only speak for myself, but you ARE explaining it clearly. My mistake came from comparing threadcounts and tartan images using only one browser window and multiple tabs. So, I was switching back and forth rather than comparing side by side, and thus having to rely on faulty and aged memory.

Your post (#17) summarizes things clearly and completely, ... and graphically. In fact you might want to edit your OP and suggest that folks skip directly to post #17 with a short stop at cajunscot's post 13.

I, too, could find nothing in either the SRT or the STA that matches the Strathmore US Air Force (Not Official). You suggest that either ...

"the USAFRPB tartan was recorded wrong in the registers or if there's a long-standing weaving error at Strathmore."

I have a couple other theories. What, if anything, prevents Strathmore (or any mill) from weaving a tartan that is a minor variation of an existing tartan and selling it under a slightly altered name? Maybe Strathmore doesn't like the green stripes and prefers gold.

Or, Matt once told me on this forum that purple was blue and red was (ancient) orange. Maybe Strathmore regards yellow as (ancient) green.

Maybe I'll email Strathmore and the SRT and see if I get a response. It can't hurt.

**seanachie** · 7th November 11, 09:03 AM

I am very appreciative of this thread and left scratching my head. As a proud Air Force vet I purchased a supposed Air Force tartan kilt in my early days and it was the wrong tartan as well, not the Lady Jane but the Thurso. I did not realize the discrepancy immediately, and got lambasted in a few private messages for wearing it. I had a few PMs with Barb in the aftermath of that and had seen the the pics of the kilt she made for her daughter. I will be very interested in the penultimate answer to this. It is a shame that there are probably a few folks, beyond Barb's family, who spent considerable resources on an AF kilt and are in a similar predicament.

If anyone gets a response from Strathmore I would be interested in hearing it.

**mookien** · 2nd December 11, 03:58 PM

I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, or even cares, but I have been talking/corresponding with Kathy Lare, Srathmore, the SRT, and the STA regarding "Air Force" tartans, particularly the Lady Jane (STA #2437), the U.S. 2001 Air Force(STA #4089), and Strathmore's US Air Force (Not Official).

I have learned some interesting things, eg the U.S. Air Force Reserve Pipe Band (aka Lady Jane), STA #2437 has a pretty-well documented history. For details see the url in cajunscot's post (#13). It is identically described on both the STA and SRT web pages, though the threadcount notation is different. A comment on this tartan from Strathmore was, "it has through universal usage, become widely accepted by servicemen and their families with US Air Force connections as a representative tartan design." The STA comment on the Lady Jane was simply, "The correct tartan is #2437 ...". I think that in the context of the our exchange "correct" meant it is the preferred tartan over the U.S. 2001 Air Force.

The U. S. 2001 Air Force tartan (the one with the green overstripes) is regarded as a "mistake" by Strathmore and a "red herring" by the STA and "should not be on the data base" (presumably both the STA and SRT's data bases). The SRT was "not privy to the information on which the 2001 entry was compiled", was "unable to comment on its authenticity", and kindly forwarded my query to the STA for possible further information.

Strathmore's US Air Force (Not Official) tartan was designed by Arthur Mackie, a former Strathmore mill manager, and the copyright for the design remains with Strathmore. As Barb has demonstrated above in post #17, this tartan is very similar, but not identical to the Lady Jane. It is available from Strathmore and is the tartan that comprises the rather stunning kilt shown in Barb T.'s original post (#1). It is also my favorite of all the "Air Force" tartans.

If I learn anything noteworthy beyond the above, I will simply edit this post.

CAVEAT: Please do not attribute anything I write here to Kathy or to any of the aforementioned organizations. It consists of my out-of-context quotes and distillations and may be erroneous or represent misunderstandings on my part. All have been considerate enough to take time and share their knowledge with me, and I greatly appreciate that.

**Mark Stephenson** · 2nd December 11, 05:27 PM

Thank you for posting this information. Yes, as the owner of the USAFR PB kilt that Barb made, and that has been discussed in this thread, I will be interested in seeing how things develop. That said, the photos do not do justice to the tartan - it truly is beautiful, and for me, it satisfies my interest in wearing a kilt that represents my service to our nation. I might add that the first time I wore the kilt was at a party on Veterans Day. As I posted in another thread, I got one of the best compliments ever: As my wife and I were going past one gentleman he asked me to pause for a moment so he could take in the coolness of it all.

**Barb T** · 2nd December 11, 06:08 PM

What Mookien says that he learned from various sources is definitely not consistent with the text that accompanies the entry in the Registry of Scottish Tartans. The Registry clearly states that the tartan was designed by Strathmore in the late 1980s and adopted by the USAF Reserve Pipe Band with Strathmore's agreement. So the mystery continues, but it's clear that what's in the Registry does not support what Mookien has posted. Here is the text from the Registry:

Tartan Details - US Air Force Reserve Pipe Band
The information held within The Scottish Register of Tartans for the "US Air Force Reserve Pipe Band" tartan is shown below.

STA ref: 2437
STWR ref: 2437
Designer: Strathmore Woollen Company Ltd
Tartan date: 01/01/1988
Registration date: This tartan was recorded prior to the launch of The Scottish Register of Tartans.
Category: Military

Registration notes: One of a series of US Military tartans woven exclusively by the Strathmore Woollen Company of Forfar and adopted by the Band of the Air Force Reserve, Georgia, USA in the early 1990s. Although this has no official US Military recognition, it has been widely accepted by US servicemen and their families with Air Force connections as a representative design. Originally called 'Lady Jane of St Cirus', the design was shown to members of the pipe band who liked it sufficiently to adopt it (with Strathmore's agreement).

**jbaker42j** · 2nd December 11, 06:10 PM

As a Vet Air Force Firefighter I love this tartan. Great kilt Barb!

**Barb T** · 2nd December 11, 06:13 PM

Thanks! I like them both, but I sure would like to get to the bottom of the mystery.

**mookien** · 2nd December 11, 06:15 PM

Mark: I inserted some information that I recently obtained on the "USAFR PB" (what I call the Lady Jane, for the sake of brevity) into post #23.

I placed it first to match the order of the tartans listed in the first paragraph. Also, I *think* it is most often used in "Air Force" kilts and most folks regard it as authentic, even if not official. To my knowledge none of the "Air Force" tartans are officially recognized by the U.S. Air Force.

By the way, my brother retired after 23 years in the Air Force. He would love to have an Air Force kilt one of these days.

**Barb T** · 2nd December 11, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by mookien

I have learned some interesting things, eg the U.S. Air Force Reserve Pipe Band (aka Lady Jane), STA #2437 has a pretty-well documented history. For details see the url in cajunscot's post (#13). It is identically described on both the STA and SRT web pages, though the threadcount notation is different. A comment on this tartan from Strathmore was, "it has through universal usage, become widely accepted by servicemen and their families with US Air Force connections as a representative tartan design." The STA comment on the Lady Jane was simply, "The correct tartan is #2437 ...". I think that in the context of the our exchange "correct" meant it is the preferred tartan over the U.S. 2001 Air Force.
.

OK - so I feel like I'm not explaining the issue here. Strathmore and STA apparently both say that the correct tartan is 2437, but what Strathmore is weaving right now is NOT the tartan that is shown in the Registry as 2437. The 2437 in the Registry has a DARK BLUE STRIPE between the red and the light blue. What Strathmore is weaving (which apparently they also think of as 2437) has the red directly next to the light blue. And their pair of dark blue stripes is more narrowly spaced than in the sett in the Registry. What Strathmore is weaving is NOT the sett that is listed in the Registry as tartan #2437.

On the left - tartan 2437 woven exactly according to what is in the Registry. On the right, what Strathmore says is also tartan 2437, which is clearly not what is in the Registry as 2437:

So, I still ask, is the one in the Registry wrong or is there a long-standing weaving error at Strathmore????

**mookien** · 2nd December 11, 07:10 PM

Barb: Thanks for your last post (#29). It helps me understand what you mean by "the mystery".

You wrote, "... what Strathmore says is also tartan 2437, which is clearly not what is in the Registry as 2437:"

I did not know that Strathmore refers to this tartan as #2437. (!?) As you have clearly demonstrated, it most certainly is not identical to #2437, though very similar. In what way do they make such a reference?

If you go to Strathmore's web page at

http://www.strathmorewoollen.co.uk/m...ction=0&page=6

there is no reference to any STA #, at least none I can see. Even if you click on "See details", there is no STA # shown. Furthermore, there appears to be no identifying number on any of their tartans, just the name. If you find any, please let me know.

Kathy has a swatch of Strathmore's US Air Force (Not Official) and it is as shown on their web pages, not like STA #2437 (Lady Jane) both in color and sett.

I tacitly, but perhaps incorrectly, regard the US Air Force (Not Official) as a Strathmore design (they assert copyright) that for whatever reason has not been registered.

So, in more direct response to the question you posed, the tartan in the Registry (#2437) is not wrong, and Strathmore is not making an error in weaving, because they are weaving their own unique tartan (though it is quite similar). I know that raises other questions about similar tartans, but I don't want to get into those.

John