Kilt shirts

[al' Sporrano]

I've just got back from Edinburgh. Whilst browsing in Geoffrey (Tailors) I saw this amazing black leather jacobite shirt. I was sorely tempted, even thought the price made me stagger slightly.

Al

You realize, of course, if you did get one, you'd just have to get one of "R"Kilts leather kilts to go with it 8)

Phew! I dunno about that mind. Don't think it would be quite me somehow. I bet Hamish would though. He already has a leather UK. TFCK do a leather kilt for about £1200

Al

[bear]

Oh dear - here we go again with now Andrew perpetuating the MYTH that an Englishman "invented" the modern (little) kilt.

For Andrew's (and other's) information, I have brought over from another heading a previous posting on this very subject; copied below (regretably without the author's consent!) is an extract from an article entitled "The Early History of the Kilt", which in turn is taken from a book called "Early Highland Dress" by Matthew AC Newsome. The whole article can be found on www.scottishtartans.org/kilt.html

Can we now kill this Rawlinson myth off for once and all, please!!

Myth?
The text you linked to was full of naionalistic pride and a whole lot of "suggestion," and, "likely," kind of words.
This bit irritates me:
"Of course, ask an Irishman, and he will tell you that the kilt was actually an ancient garment from Ireland and only later brought into Scotland by migrating Gaels, and moreover the Irish also invented the bagpipes, whisky, and whatever else you care to name. Ask an Englishman and he will tell you how Thomas Rawlinson, an English native, invented the kilt in the 18th century!"
The author makes it sound as if being English or Irish makes one biased in his opinion, when the very statement shows the author's bias. His argument here is that anyone who says the kilt was not invented in Scotland is a liar. This kind of argument makes me question the entire essay as to its worthiness and honesty.
I don't know where the kilt was invented and won't argue the point because I don't care enough about the subject. I dislike the way many people portray the kilt as a solely Scottish garment. The kilt is a Celtic garment.
To say a kilt is not a kilt because it wasn't made in Scotland is a bit of nationalistic nonsense.
I wear a kilt everyday, as a garment. Usually I wear a poly/viscose kilt. Rarely, I'll wear a wool kilt. They are Canadian kilts and every bit as much a kilt as a Scottish kilt.
Early kilts found in peat bogs have shown an incredibly diverse array of kilts that were worn. Tartan, plain knife pleat, box pleat, short, long, fringed, unfringed, etc. The idea that there is only one kind of kilt because that is the traditional kilt is absurd. Scottish kiltmakers have the choice of dragging themselves into the 21st century, or entrenching themselves in their version of the past. They have opted for the latter.
A new breed of kiltmaker is emerging that sees kilts as garments, instead of costumes, that charge a lot less for kilts, that are willing to try new fabrics because the fabrics of yesteryear are not as easy to care for as modern fabrics.
Today's kiltmakers are making kilts to be worn in everyday life, spills and all.

[Kilt'n'Khuk]

When I bought my first kilt (8yd wool tartan) 20 years ago, I was so concerned about having the "proper" jacket, shirt, "hose", shoes, etc., that I never wore it in public because I could never find these "necessities" in my area. Then I promptly out grew it. I had always felt that kilts were a very practical garment but were too heavy in the back and too expensive for everyday wear. About two years ago I saw a Utilikilt stand at the Mid-Winter Fest and that made me realize that kilts don't have to be tartan wool. About six months ago I bught my first casual kilt (Putty Amerikilt) and I have been aquiring new ones (different makers) every month or so. (I'm broke now) My point is that all the rules and regulations have probably helped keep kilts from being accepted as everyday garments.

[bubba]

Amen Bear. Kilts are evolving and being made to fit the times. The traditional kilts have their place, and the traditional design appeals most to some of us while other designs appeal to some of us. I like traditional and contemporary and casual. They all look good, are comfortable and have their place in the scheme of things.
I'm making my 5th kilt now and wearing them pretty much all the time now. I haven't pulled on a pair of jeans in about a month. With 5 I can get away with it but eventually I'd like to add a few more to the wardrobe.

[Raphael]

Wait, I thought Kilts were from Austria?

[phil h]

well put bear.

[Robbie]

Well, I hope Bear feels a whole bunch better after getting that little lot off his chest!!

All I did was point out that proper research has shown that Rawlinson didn't invent the little kilt, and I used a quote from Newsome as one of the sources to illustrate this simply because the article was readily available for copying and pasting from the net, saving me a lot of typing or scanning. Actually, the full story about Rawlinson was that it was a tailor by the name of I think Pilkington who did the actual inventing part, and on hearing of it Rawlinson ordered one for himself and then more for his workforce.

With regard to the quote from Newsome that irritated Bear so much, it is explained by the very next sentence which says "Most of our ideas about the kilt are based on myth, legend, misconceptions, and (worse yet) Hollywood." All very true and which simply formed the introduction to a reasoned argument, some points of which were unfortunately lost in the abbreviated article, which concluded that the garment currently known round the world as the Scottish kilt was indeed invented in Scotland in the late 17th/early 18th century and not in Ireland, the Isle of Man or anywhere else. There is almost unanimous agreement amongst researchers on this point, and I fail to see why this gets Bear so excited!

Be that as it may, I hardly think this is the place to go writing treatises about the origin of the kilt (there's not enough space on this forum for a book!)

What a lot of people tend to forget that at the time the early kilt was evolving, there was no such thing as fashion garments/designer labels or the like, and clothing was designed to suit a particular climate and purpose - eg natives in the Amazon jungle only wear loin cloths, whereas Eskimos had animal fur/skin coverall suits. The wool kilt was particularly suitable to the Scottish temperate climate and was an excellent garment for working and walking in the Scottish countryside, firstly as the great kilt which was used as a blanket when sleeping out of doors then when this was no longer required, it evolved into the separate little kilt and plaid which could be used as a cloak when necessary. Although the plaid has now been more or less dropped in favour of more modern jackets/coats or whatever (except for mostly ceremonial occasions), nevertheless in Scotland wool remains the material of choice most suited to our particular climate (and I have worn wool kilts as my normal everyday garment for the past 40+ years).

Some kiltmakers in Scotland, noteably TFCK, have tried alternative materials but they have not really caught on with the general kilt-buying public, and as someone "in the trade", Bear should know there is no future in supplying an unsaleable product!

However, wool is not the best material for hotter climates and I do not know of any Scot who objects to kilts made either elsewhere or of cooler man-made materials for these climes, provided only that if the garment is going to be called a kilt then it actually looks like a kilt, and if it's going to be called a Scottish kilt then it should be wool. In fact, I'm sure that the only garment I have ever objected to is the so-called Mountain Kilt, which has no resemblance whatever to a kilt but is simply a straight or A-line wrap-over skirt made of, I think, nylon.

I've forgotten where I'm going with this posting, so had better stop as it's already far too long!!

[Hamish]

You realize, of course, if you did get one, you'd just have to get one of "R"Kilts leather kilts to go with it 8)



Phew! I dunno about that mind. Don't think it would be quite me somehow. I bet Hamish would though. He already has a leather UK. TFCK do a leather kilt for about £1200

Al

Hmmmn! I might at that, Al. Although I am still recovering from paying all the import duties and taxes, etc. on the leather Utilikilt just over a year ago!

Apart from the TFCK leather kilt, they also tailor very nice 6 yard imitation leather kilts in black and brown at £300. I have one of each which I wear several times a week, they are SO comfortable.


You really have got me thinking about that leather shirt now, Al. - although it might be just a little OTT with a real (or imitation) leather kilt. After all, I am not really a 'leatherman' at heart - I like it because it is something different, I suppose.

[phil h]

OMG robbie, get over it pal, I read war n peace quicker than I read ur post, none of us was there, noone knows for sure. no smoke without fire, he must have had something to do with it. maybe it eveolved at the same time in 2 or 3 places.attitude like that "us n them" that leads to the type of **** that has been going on for 100's of yrs in Britain. are we not all just humans, brother no matter where we come from? it was a man(or woman) who invented the kilt, lets just let it rest there.

[al' Sporrano]

[
Hmmmn! I might at that, Al. Although I am still recovering from paying all the import duties and taxes, etc. on the leather Utilikilt just over a year ago!

Apart from the TFCK leather kilt, they also tailor very nice 6 yard imitation leather kilts in black and brown at £300. I have one of each which I wear several times a week, they are SO comfortable.
You really have got me thinking about that leather shirt now, Al. - although it might be just a little OTT with a real (or imitation) leather kilt. After all, I am not really a 'leatherman' at heart - I like it because it is something different, I suppose.

I was shown an immitation leather TFCK by the guy in the shop. I politely declined. Not really me. The shirt, however, I could see being perfectly OK with a trad. tartan kilt, or even my black levi jeans!!

I've always liked leather jackets and am definitely a leather boot man. So you could argue that I am a bit of a leatherman at heart (though perhaps not quite what you meant, I think). I'm still tempted and will have another look on my next visit.

Al