Dress Codes

[MacLowlife]

This has been a big conversation and I can't claim to have read all of it. But what I notice about many of the earlier posts is the idea that people will gradually adjust their dress for a recurring event- like an office Christmas party- but they have more trouble with the one off, such as a wedding. I think this explains why notorious examples are so notorious. Because they have a Caledonian Ball every so often, people remember from last year what they are supposed to wear- and just how serious the hosts and stewards are about the dress code. And the guys in hockey jackets wear nice trousers the next year because they felt a little underdressed in jeans. We learn from experience.

When someone says "Creative Black Tie" or even "Black tie" do they mean BLACK tie, as in it has to be black? I went last night to my local St A's Society annual meeting, which is Black tie/ Kilt. I saw at least one gentleman in a society tie, four in hand version, and what may have been a dark suit. It may have been a tuxedo, I am not sure. I saw several kilted members in various degrees of dress-up, including at least one in an Argyll jacket and a four in hand tie. I myself was wearing a PC, but it was bright red, chosen to tone down the overall effect of my Royal Stewart kilt. My bow tie was striped black and magenta. Personally, I thought myself better and more appropriately dressed than those who had on Saxon tuxedo jackets and kilts. I was disappointed to miss one of our senior members who usually wears a red silk Argyll to the Annual Meeting. He and I will both put away our red jackets on Saturday night, though, when we attend the Society's Tartan Ball, also denoted Black Tie. we ( and others) may show up in jabots, but we will be wearing dark jackets.

I also belong to another club that has two parties. One is white tie and gentlemen had better be in white tie. The other party is black tie and as nearly as I can tell (from 15 years of membership), that means BLACK tie, not spotted, striped, paisley, etc. Other than those events, if I am going to a black tie function, my bow tie is sure to be striped or spotted or something, anything, other than solid black and my jacket may well be tartan. I am working up my nerve to wear a midnight blue velvet jacket (with solid black tie) to our Spring dance, but I may not have the fortitude...

[artificer]

This has been a big conversation and I can't claim to have read all of it. But what I notice about many of the earlier posts is the idea that people will gradually adjust their dress for a recurring event- like an office Christmas party- but they have more trouble with the one off, such as a wedding. I think this explains why notorious examples are so notorious. Because they have a Caledonian Ball every so often, people remember from last year what they are supposed to wear- and just how serious the hosts and stewards are about the dress code. And the guys in hockey jackets wear nice trousers the next year because they felt a little underdressed in jeans. We learn from experience.

When someone says "Creative Black Tie" or even "Black tie" do they mean BLACK tie, as in it has to be black? I went last night to my local St A's Society annual meeting, which is Black tie/ Kilt. I saw at least one gentleman in a society tie, four in hand version, and what may have been a dark suit. It may have been a tuxedo, I am not sure. I saw several kilted members in various degrees of dress-up, including at least one in an Argyll jacket and a four in hand tie. I myself was wearing a PC, but it was bright red, chosen to tone down the overall effect of my Royal Stewart kilt. My bow tie was striped black and magenta. Personally, I thought myself better and more appropriately dressed than those who had on Saxon tuxedo jackets and kilts. I was disappointed to miss one of our senior members who usually wears a red silk Argyll to the Annual Meeting. He and I will both put away our red jackets on Saturday night, though, when we attend the Society's Tartan Ball, also denoted Black Tie. we ( and others) may show up in jabots, but we will be wearing dark jackets.

I also belong to another club that has two parties. One is white tie and gentlemen had better be in white tie. The other party is black tie and as nearly as I can tell (from 15 years of membership), that means BLACK tie, not spotted, striped, paisley, etc. Other than those events, if I am going to a black tie function, my bow tie is sure to be striped or spotted or something, anything, other than solid black and my jacket may well be tartan. I am working up my nerve to wear a midnight blue velvet jacket (with solid black tie) to our Spring dance, but I may not have the fortitude...

I like the "Black Tie Guide"s commentary on Creative Black Tie (ie, don't do it, either as an organizer or attendee)

ith:

[Downunder Kilt]

It's simple.

A distinction between ethnic dress and national dress is being inferred here.

I still think the whole discussion, of "Who is entitled to wear the kilt" which raises it's ugly head often, is simply a resuscitated horse, being reanimated solely for the purpose of beating him dead again.

This thread has diverted into one of those threads, but originally was NOT ABOUT who is entitled to wear the kilt. We've beat that horse, soundly, and honestly I don't believe the previous arguments have swayed anyone from their opinions.

What is NOT being said is "You can't wear a kilt because you aren't a Scot" line...

What is being said is "It would be bad form to wear the kilt if you aren't from Scotland, and are asked to wear national dress at an international function." Which is agreeable, I think, considering that an American is not a Scot, it would be inappropriate for an American to wear a kilt to a Formal International function where National Dress is expected. Scotland isn't an American's Nation.

As I've mentioned before, I do believe that Canadians and other Commonwealth members could potentially be granted some leeway here... even if I'm disagreed with. For what it's worth, CmcG made it look good and handled it well... ultimately that's what matters.

Great summary and one with which I agree wholeheartedly

[Meadcrafter]

Sadly, Meadcrafter, if your antecedents came from Bothwell in Lanarkshire then they would possibly be regarded as "Lowlanders" by some here, and as such are prevented from engaging in kilt-wearing which, as we all know, is the sole preserve of "Highlanders". Quite what exactly is the distinction between a "Highlander" and a "Lowlander" has never actually been defined by the proponents of this segregation so until it is I believe that you are quite entitled to carry on wearing your kilt as and when you choose to do so.

I don't think Clan MacLean is thought of as lowlanders, even if some moved there to find work. We are one of the oldest of the highland clans. At one time we owned most of the Isle of Mull, and large tracts of land in Argyll as well as the Inner Hebrides.

[Peter Crowe]

I don't think Clan MacLean is thought of as lowlanders, even if some moved there to find work. We are one of the oldest of the highland clans. At one time we owned most of the Isle of Mull, and large tracts of land in Argyll as well as the Inner Hebrides.

You stated your great-grandfather came from the parish of Bothwell in Lanarkshire, as do I. Despite having the name MacLean, he would have been regarded as being from Lanarkshire not Mull before he emigrated from Scotland. Lanarkshire or to give it it's older name Clydesdale is very much in the Lowlands. That was all that Phil was referring to.

[Meadcrafter]

You stated your great-grandfather came from the parish of Bothwell in Lanarkshire, as do I. Despite having the name MacLean, he would have been regarded as being from Lanarkshire not Mull before he emigrated from Scotland. Lanarkshire or to give it it's older name Clydesdale is very much in the Lowlands. That was all that Phil was referring to.

Maybe I don't understand Scotish bigotryreal well, which is quite possable seeing as how I don't even understand our own, but is this to say,if you so much a step on lowland soil you are a lowlander?

What if you washed you feet real well when you left?

[Peter Crowe]

Maybe I don't understand Scotish bigotryreal well, which is quite possable seeing as how I don't even understand our own, but is this to say,if you so much a step on lowland soil you are a lowlander?

What if you washed you feet real well when you left?

Excuse me Sir, but I don't know what you want me to tell you. Phil and I were being sympathetic towards your right to wear the kilt as opposed to the naysayers. You yourself said your great grandfather was from Bothwell parish, not that he stopped there awhile or washed his feet there.

You are taking offence where none was given far less intended, but hey what do I know, I just come from the place you mentioned and have a degree in Scottish History.

[Meadcrafter]

Very sorry, no offence meant and none taken. Seems way off topic anyway.

Good- night sir.

[MacLowlife]

I believe many instances of "creative black tie" originate with the host's desire for elegance without causing guests expense. It is fine to argue that Only Plain Black Tie is appropriate, but not everyone has an extra $100 or $200 and some can't justify the expense. Quite often those who have not are also those who have no money...

Sure, it is easy to say they should just stay home, but the idea was to allow some clever approximation to serve those clever enough to come up with it.

And then we come to the rest of us. A solid black tie and a solid black vest or cummerbund will only go so far to rescue the man with no sense of style or without the ability to dress up and be comfortable. It is fine to point out that Classic Always Works, but for the ill at ease, Classic only works so well.

And finally, I think the point of wearing a dinner suit (or formal kiltwear) with one's own twist is to keep the thing from wearing you. Again, there are those who will look perfect and there are those who can only be helped so much. Changing the color of the tie/vest/cummerbund will not really affect either group, much like a clever license tag/ number plate will not make your car go faster or make it more reliable.

In fact, we return to the idea of a dress code. It exists for the benefit of the man who is Not Sure. The more confident you are, the less it matters what you are wearing.

[Bugbear]

...
Sure, it is easy to say they should just stay home, but the idea was to allow some clever approximation to serve those clever enough to come up with it.

* Exactly, MacLowlife, I feel that I should, unless absolutely necessary, stay away from formal events.

...
]And then we come to the rest of us. A solid black tie and a solid black vest or cummerbund will only go so far to rescue the man with no sense of style or without the ability to dress up and be comfortable. It is fine to point out that Classic Always Works, but for the ill at ease, Classic only works so well.

* Yes, MacLowlife, I feel ill at ease that someone will order me to fill a water glass or bring the rolls because I have notched lapels on my tuxedo jacket.

...
In fact, we return to the idea of a dress code. It exists for the benefit of the man who is Not Sure. The more confident you are, the less it matters what you are wearing.

Tell that to the doorman...