Is this how all Scotweb kilts look?

[Riverkilt]

Good move BCAC.

My kiltmaker was trained in the traditional method of hand sewing kilts at the Keith Kilt School in Scotland and not one of the 13 kilts she's sewn for me have a hem. I doubt she has ever sewn a kilt with a hem, or ever will.

Sounds like your former kiltmaker was overly creative - or a bull tosser.

[davidg]

I doubt she has ever sewn a kilt with a hem, or ever will

She probably has. It's quite common for childrens kilts to be made with a hem so that there is room from rapid growth. Never on an adult kilt though unless you ask for it (and I would reject any traditional kilt made for me that arrived with a hem that I did not ask for)

[Bing]

In a previous (skinny and athletic) life BK (Before Kids) I was into the custom bicycle scene. The acknowledged grandmaster of handmade custom bicycles in the US was Richard Sachs. Imperfection is Perfection is one of Richard's mantras; that the "imperfection" one believes they see in a product made with traditional methods and materials by a skilled artisan is actually the hallmark of quality.

Another thing that Richard constantly says is that while he makes bicycles he is not in the bicycle industry. Industry uses computers and laser cutters and water jets and robotics controlled welding stations. He practices the craft, and that is a different thing entirely. He does it alone, on a bench with hand tools and no shortcuts.

Factories all around the world can churn out pants or shoes or cellphones or whatever by the millions. They use quality measures like Six-Sigma to quantify consistent and uniform output and our consumer culture has trained us to accept that uniformity = quality. They use materials and develop methods that allow them to reduce production time and sell the fact that everything is identical to us as "quality". And for the most part we believe it, whether it's the $5 t-shirt from Old Navy or the $5 cheeseburger meal we get at the drive-thru on the way home. Exactly as expected must mean quality, right? And for those of not trained in the methods or techniques that the craft uses to produce those items, we don't recognize the tricks that the industry uses with lesser materials and quicker production methods.

Enjoy your handmade kilt. It's a craft item, it's one of a kind. Imperfection is perfection.

[Riverkilt]

Touche' Davidg -

She may have sewn hems for wee kilts for kids...

[Dale-of-Cedars]

I agree with Nick that initially this thread gave me a negative impression, but it has also turned that around and succeeded in educating me in what should be realistic expectations regarding traditional selvedge.

I may never be able to afford a custom weave from DC Dalgliesh, but it's still very high on my wishlist (should I win a lottery... )

[creagdhubh]

Colm,

Not trying to be antagonistic here, but why do you like a hemmed kilt? In my mind the pleats would not be as sharp and the bottom edge of the kilt would be twice as bulky. Additionally, the kilt would look as if it had been made for someone else and had been altered to fit a shorter man, instead of being custom-made for you.

As far as the matching fly plaid, I encourage you to consider purchasing a matching bias-cut waistcoat instead!

Cordially,

David

I agree!!!

The kilt looks fine mate, leave it be.

[creagdhubh]

I've just noticed this thread, so sorry for taking a while to respond. And it's the first time this particular issue has come to my attention. In fact, I think there's little I can add to Matt's excellent summary. (Thanks, Matt.) And I hope that Colm feels reassured by the various responses.

Reading between the lines of what's been quoted, I gather there has already been a complaint to our customer service team, with a response that was obviously not satisfactory from Colm's point of view. I do take on board the complaint that the team could perhaps have done more to explain the technical aspects when contacted. I'm not in the office so cannot review the full correspondence, but will be looking into this and discussing it further tomorrow. The only thing I could add right now is to note that this is our very busiest time of year and, regretfully, there's not always the same time available for very full responses as we'd try to give at most times. So please accept apologies if we've fallen short.

I also note the comment that the nature of the product could perhaps be better explained on the page. We do our very best to do this. But because our kilts are available in such a wide range of fabrics, some parts of the description must inevitably appear during the individual tartan-choosing process rather than on the main kilt page itself. It's not easy to balance making detailed information easily obvious and available, without the page becoming overwhelmingly cluttered. But I'll certainly look again in the light of this experience to see if I can find ways it could realistically be improved. Feel free to PM me with ideas!

The only other thing I'd add would be please to ask everyone to note the 'Sticky' at the top of this forum area, asking anyone with service complaints like this please to do me the courtesy of a personal message first, to see if I can help sort things out. This seems a perfect example of why, since anyone reading only the headline or start of this thread might take away a negative impression of us that I don't feel is entirely fair... and sadly many people don't pursue these things fully, and will go on first impressions. As I've said, I'm always happy to get personally involved if there's a problem - real, or perceived (which is much the same thing). But please do give me the chance.

Finally, to Colm, if you do still have issues you'd like help with sorting out, do please PM me directly. I'm off out for the day right now, but will get on the case asap if you do still have unresolved complaints of any kind.

Well stated, Nick. You are truly a gentleman!

Happy Christmas!

[longhuntr74]

Bing...great insights on quality and custom pieces! I agree wholeheartedly.

With regard to Colm's original post, I think the horse is dead...but I'm going to share my opinion anyways! I would classify the kilt he got as acceptable. I think that dip in the selvedge would irk me a little bit..but with some steam and pulling, one might be able to stretch it and even it out a bit. It certainly has nothing to do with the quality of the kilt...but does say a little bit about the quality of the cloth. Again, some steam might fix it.

Regarding the turn up portions in the apron pleats, I think his complaint was that he didn't know why they were there...and we all know they have a purpose. Having made a couple of kilts myself, I look at those parts and think that the turn up itself looks rather sloppy...like it was done in a rush. Likewise, the stitching that joins the layers together at the bottom of the apron (below the kilt pin area) also looks a bit sloppy. Neither of these have a thing to do with how the kilt looks while it is being worn...and only the close inspection of these parts by someone who is experienced in the making of kilts would notice them. These are little clues, however, that make me question how much of a rush the rest of the kilt was made in. I'd have to examine the kilt thoroughly to make that judgement.

I no way is what I've said above an indictment of Scotweb. I've done business with them before and probably will again. I was perfectly happy with their service and Nick is always responsive on here and really cares about the contentment of his customers. He is quite the gentleman!

The lesson here for me (and it's been discussed in several other threads that I would hope people would read before pulling the trigger on a new hand sewn kilt) is that I don't think I would order an $800 kilt (or any hand sewn kilt...regardless of price) from a large retailer (to be made by a nameless/anonymous kiltmaker), when I could have a better quality $400-600 kilt made by an independent kiltmaker who's NAME I know and whom I've talked to in person. This enables the buyer to fully discuss every aspect of the type of pleating, hem/no hem, sizing, etc, to ask questions, and to articulate their expectations to the maker. All of this dialogue is likely to result in a happy customer and a perfectly fitted kilt!

[BCAC]

Longhuntr74,

My hemmed kilt was made by an independant kiltmaker who's name I (and everyone on xmarks) know who has a great reputation.

To get quality you really have to do your homework. I thought that I had but I was disappointed.

My new kiltmaker is a master craftsman and WAY better (and don't ask, this thread is not for naming names (but if anyone wants to know, send me a PM)).

By the way, Ron. The first kiltmaker was probably, to quote you, a bull tosser.

[Colm]

...Imperfection is Perfection is one of Richard's mantras; that the "imperfection" one believes they see in a product made with traditional methods and materials by a skilled artisan is actually the hallmark of quality.

Another thing that Richard constantly says is that while he makes bicycles he is not in the bicycle industry. Industry uses computers and laser cutters and water jets and robotics controlled welding stations. He practices the craft, and that is a different thing entirely. He does it alone, on a bench with hand tools and no shortcuts.

Factories all around the world can churn out pants or shoes or cellphones or whatever by the millions. They use quality measures like Six-Sigma to quantify consistent and uniform output and our consumer culture has trained us to accept that uniformity = quality. They use materials and develop methods that allow them to reduce production time and sell the fact that everything is identical to us as "quality". And for the most part we believe it, whether it's the $5 t-shirt from Old Navy or the $5 cheeseburger meal we get at the drive-thru on the way home. Exactly as expected must mean quality, right? And for those of not trained in the methods or techniques that the craft uses to produce those items, we don't recognize the tricks that the industry uses with lesser materials and quicker production methods.

Enjoy your handmade kilt. It's a craft item, it's one of a kind. Imperfection is perfection.

very good point. thank you for sharing that. reminds of me the difference between this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjONQNUU8Fg