Is this how all Scotweb kilts look?

[Nick Fiddes]

The lesson here for me (and it's been discussed in several other threads that I would hope people would read before pulling the trigger on a new hand sewn kilt) is that I don't think I would order an $800 kilt (or any hand sewn kilt...regardless of price) from a large retailer (to be made by a nameless/anonymous kiltmaker), when I could have a better quality $400-600 kilt made by an independent kiltmaker who's NAME I know and whom I've talked to in person. This enables the buyer to fully discuss every aspect of the type of pleating, hem/no hem, sizing, etc, to ask questions, and to articulate their expectations to the maker. All of this dialogue is likely to result in a happy customer and a perfectly fitted kilt!

Hmm... I intended to let this one pass, but it's been troubling me, so I feel I have to respond. Firstly, I really can't accept your statement that you'd receive a "better" kilt elsewhere, for any price. I'm sure your preferred kiltmaker is excellent. But the word better seems to imply that our kiltmakers are somehow inferior, which I strongly believe is both untrue and, I feel, just a little hurtful. Our kiltmakers are individually selected and time-proven as absolutely the at the top of their game in the business, and unless you have specific reason to show otherwise I'd really prefer you didn't describe others as better... Fair enough? :-)

Moreover, as a company no one has more experience than us of marketing kilts and tartan online. We were the world's first company to do so, in 1995, and since then we've led the field. This matters, because it's a very different thing dealing at a distance, than visiting a tailor personally. We've learned all the pitfalls and communication errors that can so easily occur, and ironed out all the wrinkles in the process. And (again, with no specific criticism elsewhere intended at all) whilst an individual kiltmaker might be a superb tailor, the chances of their having as much experience as we do of specification and ordering via the internet are slim. You only have to look at how easily flame wars develop on less well moderated web sites than this, to realise how imperfect a medium email can be, with massive opportunity for ambiguity and misinterpretation. We've been there, done that. And our huge experience in this world really counts in delivering the product that's wanted, on time.

I'd also question your position on price, since in my experience our pricing for both fully hand-sewn and part-machined (but still made to measure) kilts are as keen as it gets. In fact I don't believe you can validly make sweeping statements about price in the way you do (400-600 vs 800), since most of the price differences lie in the different fabrics. You're comparing apples with pears, which is not a fair comparison. And individual quality kiltmakers' charges will of course vary, so I'm not even going to attempt to generalise myself. But what I can say myself is that because we either employ direct or can promise our kiltmakers a regular stream of commissions, we are charged considerably less than an individual customer would be, and so even with our own slim margins added on the price is either broadly similar to the customer or even less.

As for the points about discussion and specification, we can, and do, liaise with any customer about their preferences and needs, in as much depth as they wish (by no means all want to). For our Balmoral range the scope for specification is limited to things like pleating style, because that is explicitly created to be as streamlined a process as we can make it to be able to offer such extraordinary quality at the incredible price we do. But if you are looking at the D.C. Dalgliesh Artisan Kilt, or the Manley Richardson Bespoke one, you can more or less design your own within reason and our team will give you all the expert help you need, and the kiltmakers will create it just as you've asked.

That leaves one point about your liking to talk directly to the kiltmaker, which I accept may give you a feeling of personal involvement, even if I don't believe it adds much practical advantage. But let me point out that this must be weighed against all the positive advantages of dealing at one stage removed, particularly in terms of schedule. Because of the much greater order book with which we deal, we have enormously greater flexibility to push orders up and down the queue, whilst still meeting our promised deadlines. Plus we are far more immune to the vagaries of illness and family issues, which will inevitably affect any individual craftsperson from time to time. This may not matter if you're happy to wait, but many of our orders are deadline-critical such as for weddings, and our order book working with multiple kiltmakers means that apart from utterly extraordinary circumstances (such as last winter when the whole of Scotland ground to a halt for several weeks due to the worst snow for decades) we can always move things around to mean we rarely let anyone down.

Oh, and whilst I'm sort of flattered to be described as a 'large retailer', this does have echoes of big corporate detachment, which is exactly the opposite of who we are, and what we strive to do. We're a family company, with a small and decidated team, most of whom have been with us for years. We pick up the phone personally, usually within a few rings. And we give every order individual attention. We do deal with quite a lot of orders, because we're known for doing what we do well. But the flip side of that is that we've developed technical systems to make everything reliable and effiicient, which saves lots of time and potential for error - time that frees us up to put in the personal attention wherever it's really needed and valued. That's why we mostly get fabulous feedback about the old-fashioned service standards we deliver. So please don't write us off as if we were some anonymous retailer... it hurts!

So there are swings, as well as roundabouts. I appreciate you were expressing an individual viewpoint with no direct criticism intended. But I hope you'll forgive me for sharing our own perspective in return.

[Riverkilt]

So Nick, well said.

Have you ever thought of including on your website the qualifications you demand of your kiltmakers before you sign them up?

Or perhaps having a "Kiltmakers Page" on your website where you have a little photo of each kiltmaker and their experience/qualifications?

[Nick Fiddes]

Both interesting suggestions, Riverkilt. But I don't believe formal qualifications are actually that important in this field. Being trained with a recognised expert is obviously very helpful, but it's not of itself a guarantee of quality of work. And conversely, self-trained individuals can achieve very high standards with the right attitude and aptitude. So we have to treat each person on the (sustained) merit of their work, which is hard to quantify (for all the reasons outlined above in this thread... it's a craft, not an industrial process). For what it's worth, we take the same approach to employing the rest of our team, as we feel individual qualities and skills count far more than written qualifications - even our tech team has included both PhDs and those with no formal training at all (but a great way with code).

As for the Kiltmaker's Page, I'd really love to do this. But we don't, again for the same reason that we don't publicise the identities of the rest of our team. The fact is that we do genuinely put a far higher investment into finding and training the right people than any of our competitors. Our retail team, for example, get a full month's training before they're introduced to dealing with customers, and I know of no other business in our sector that comes close to that. So identifying them online would be an open invitation to poaching. Much the same goes for kiltmakers. It's sad, but we can't.

[Riverkilt]

Sorry, didn't mean the paper qualifications - though that would be nice too. Just what you said...how they learned the craft. There are so many stories...

Course the second part precludes the first. Just sayin' the potential buyer is the one who takes the leap of faith...reassurance makes it easier to pull the trigger.

[thescot]

. . . one of Richard's mantras; that the "imperfection" one believes they see in a product made with traditional methods and materials by a skilled artisan is actually the hallmark of quality.

Another thing that Richard constantly says is that while he makes bicycles he is not in the bicycle industry. Industry uses computers and laser cutters and water jets and robotics controlled welding stations. He practices the craft, and that is a different thing entirely. He does it alone, on a bench with hand tools and no shortcuts.

. . .

How very well put. I was struck by this quote as I have only recently undertaken to learn the art of hand rolling linen handkerchiefs. I bought a couple of yeards of pretty good linen and jumped in there, making a few Xmas gifts for some special friends.

The first thing I found out was that it is nearly impossible for me to hand roll a perfectly straight edge. I was very unhappy with the products (the first two were really tacky!), but then after some examination of some very fine-and very expensive--Irish linen handkerchiefs, I learned that it is impossible to hand roll a perfectly straight edge. I looked closely at some that cost upwards of $50 each, and they are not perfectly straight.

You see, that's a hallmark of the craft. A machine can fold and sew a nearly straight hem, but it's just that: a hem, and not a hand rolled edge. I have noted a couple of little details (I don't wish to call them imperfections) in each of my hand-sewn kilts, and it is those very details which make each one unique and special.

A hand rolled linen handkerchief is not a product of industry, nor is a hand sewn kilt. We should all revel in the little idiosyncracies of our kilts, our sporrans, and our lives because we are not ants.

[Nick Fiddes]

Sorry, didn't mean the paper qualifications - though that would be nice too. Just what you said...how they learned the craft. There are so many stories...

Course the second part precludes the first. Just sayin' the potential buyer is the one who takes the leap of faith...reassurance makes it easier to pull the trigger.

Yeah, it's a nice idea. Realistically I think we'd have to keep it quite general not to be really specific in terms of individual identities. But I can see an article in there, possibly about a few different individuals' lives and experiences... I'll chat it over with our media person. (See what I mean... "media person"... just how vague is that!)

But I absolutely agree with where you're coming from. That's largely why my own ugly mug is plastered all over our web site. Personally I'd much prefer not to have to, as I really don't like the limelight. But we came to the conclusion it's my duty to the company to be a sort of visible presence, to help customers have confidence they really are dealing with reasonably sentient lifeforms who will do their best to respond when asked (unlike the feeling we're all too familiar with nowadays from many companies).

[davidg]

I hope Nick doesn't mind me jumping in here as it is, essentially, his section of the forum but I have followed this thread closely and can see quite clearly that the original complaint was made through lack of experience

With the best will in the world no kilt maker or highland outfitter can possibly cover every combination of misunderstandings that might arise through the customer being inexperienced. Should an explanation be given of what tartan is, where wool comes from, the difference between saxony and worsted, the difference between muted and modern or which way round you wear the pleats?

There is a basic duty on the purchaser to research first what they are buying and to ask questions if they are unsure. It would certainly not occur to me to explain to any of my customers that a kilt does not have a hem, and this is what the original dissatisfaction really boiled down to

We are all inexperienced in something and there is no shame in that but to suggest Nick tries to prevent something like this in the future is perhaps an impossible task. Who knows what the next issue might be that arises from never having seen or worn a traditional kilt before. Perhaps the true responsibility for this lies with those who have sold the lower quality hemmed kilt to the OP in the past without explaining that this is not normal

The idea that we should shun operations like Nick's and deal with the actual kilt maker is unrealistic. Even the small independent highland outfitters usually outsource to anonymous (to you) kilt makers so apart from the relatively few you know on this forum there is nowhere to go to find them

[mookien]

Nick: Way to stand behind your kilt makers! I'll bet they are proud to work for you. There is no reason on Earth why your kilt makers aren't among the best in the world, and you obviously think they are. That's a good thing.

My first kilt from Gaelic Themes was sewn by some contract kilt maker. I know almost nothing about kilt making, so am little able to judge its detailed craftsmanship. But, I do know that I like the look of the kilt and enjoy wearing it. I would like to meet the person who actually sewed that kilt and thank her/him for making such a wonderful garment.

I'm still looking forward to buying my first Scotweb kilt. There's just so much Scottish attire and so little money (and time).

John

[Bing]

How very well put. I was struck by this quote as I have only recently undertaken to learn the art of hand rolling linen handkerchiefs. I bought a couple of yeards of pretty good linen and jumped in there, making a few Xmas gifts for some special friends.

The first thing I found out was that it is nearly impossible for me to hand roll a perfectly straight edge. I was very unhappy with the products (the first two were really tacky!), but then after some examination of some very fine-and very expensive--Irish linen handkerchiefs, I learned that it is impossible to hand roll a perfectly straight edge. I looked closely at some that cost upwards of $50 each, and they are not perfectly straight.

You see, that's a hallmark of the craft. A machine can fold and sew a nearly straight hem, but it's just that: a hem, and not a hand rolled edge. I have noted a couple of little details (I don't wish to call them imperfections) in each of my hand-sewn kilts, and it is those very details which make each one unique and special.

A hand rolled linen handkerchief is not a product of industry, nor is a hand sewn kilt. We should all revel in the little idiosyncracies of our kilts, our sporrans, and our lives because we are not ants.

You'll love reading this guy's blog. Thomas Mahon is an independent tailor, trained on Saville Row at Anderson & Sheppard. While at A&S he was the cutter for a certain prince who has a thread dedicated to his kilted sartorial elegance on these very boards - nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Say no more.

[highlander999]

I just got (about a month ago) my new MacGregor 8 yard kilt from Scotweb. I love it. And as stated, sometimes the"imperfections" are what make it perfect. I recall when I first visited my haberdasher in the 70's when bow ties were in style. Every kid wore a clip on, being a bit different I had to buy a tie it yourself tie. And the store owner (an old family friend), showed me that day how to tie a bow tie. Something every young gentleman should know. But his ONE CAVIAT was... Don't try and tie it PERFECT like a clip on. It's ok that it's a hair off, or one side has a bit of a twist to it. It becomes your style. SO, when it is HAND MADE, there are differences that the MASS PRODUCED variety. Those are what you pay for.

Lastly, I do know that waiting on my kilt was exhausting. And there was an issue with the Fabric Mill and I just couldn't get them to change mills for a few weeks then found out they had the other mill in stock. That aside, keeping the customer informed is probably the greatest thing any company can do.

In the USA, most of the Auto Body Shops now post weekly the progress of your auto repair. Really cool. I think as the process starts something like that that could be put on your individual account page would be cool. I think everyone that orders a kilt is just as excited at the progress as anyone who's favorite car has been damaged. A little something that no one else does that adds just a bit to the excitement.. A bit of a tease, we are here, and going here. Seeing the progress would be awesome...