Kilt and necktie in matching tartan?

[Jock Scot]

I actually think that Andy Stewart and a few others are partly responsible for the kilt not being worn more often during the day. NO, I repeat, NO kilt wearing Scot ever dressed like that for day wear before the TV cottoned on to it and the likes of A.S. bastardised it!

Would the traditional day kilt wearer, before TV, normally wear the shoes that AS is: no!

Would " " " " " " " " hose " " :no!

Would " " " " " " sporran " :no!

Would " " " " " tartan " :no!

Would " " " " " " tartan tie " :no!

Would " " " " buttons on the day Jacket " :no!

Would " " " " " Colour of jacket " : no!

Would " " " " " white shirt to sing " " :no!

The problem is, having been led astray, the rest of the world, including many Scots, now think that this style of day attire and even more unsuitable variations, is what they should model themselves on . It must be so, they think, it is seen that way on TV, film, CD and video.

It does, I am afraid, make me a tad irritated.

[Panache]

The thing about wearing tartan neckties with a tartan kilt is that even if they're the same tartan, the sett size is usually different (as ties will generally use a smaller sett so you can actually see the repeat). This makes it look strange to me, as if they go together, but only by accident.

What does the rabble think of Andy Stewart's kit here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSB_BiNSZo

His outfit is...err...one that I would not choose to wear myself

However he does provide a good example of why a tartan tie running straight into the tartan kilt isn't terribly flattering. To me it looks odd with different the sett sizes (as Tobus mentioned) running straight into each other. A muddled sort of look where neither the kilt nor the tie has any distinction from the other yet they don't blend together. A waistcoat would have helped his outfit. Actually his outfit needed quite a bit of help, but a waistcoat would have been a good start!

Cheers

Jamie

[Panache]

I also feel there is an element to this discussion that bears note. Tartans all have different visual elements to them. Colors, stripe width, sett size all contribute to very different looks. So trying to determine a hard and fast rule for all tartans for what should or shouldn't be worn above the waist or not doesn't quite work. Take a look at this photo of Alan Cumming that Matt Newsome posted

Now I like this outfit a lot (except for the boots) and would happily wear it.

But instead of this lovely green based tartan (Clan Cumming I assume) lets imagine that this outfit was made in Mcleod of Lewis, Barclay, or Buchanan. I don't think that I would like it nearly as much. In fact while it might work on stage at a rock concert I think it would be clown-like in person. Sort of like how some tartans really lend themselves to working with trews but others don't.

So the tartan itself, as well as how it is worn and along with the other attributes of an outfit is just one more factor to consider.

Cheers

Jamie

[Tobus]

I'm not so sure that the photo of Alan Cumming would be something I'd point to as a "proper" example of Highland attire. The boots and oddly non-symmetrical sporran, for example, show that he's putting a modern (non-traditional) twist on it. Not to mention the modern cut of the jacket, the modern style kilt pin, and the zany hair-do. And while he seems mostly well-turned-out, I still wonder (as I have since I first saw that picture a while back) whether he was using that much tartan to make some sort of wild fashion statement, or simply trying to go for a more traditional look while not completely giving in to old-fashioned styles. Discounting the boots, the rest of his outfit is right on the line between traditional and modern. It's a very interesting look in a streamlined and modern, yet heavily influenced by tradition, style. Still, though, while it's a good example of "it can be done", I'm not sure it proves any point as to whether "it should be done".

A more historical example of tartan saturation would be the fellow below. Not saying I think it's a particularly attractive look, but it certainly has historical provenance.



Another modern example of tartan overload would be Malcolm MacGregor:



Personally, I think that much tartan is hideous and should not be done. But like Jamie so excellently points out, it may just be a function of the tartan itself. Maybe going for a full-scale tartan explosion look would be less horrid with a more subdued tartan.

(edited to add: note also that in both these examples, the jacket and waistcoat are both on the bias.)

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Tobus,

Yes, that photo of Cumming is an example of a very modern take on Highland attire, which is actually why I chose to use it. Your examples of the MacLeay portrait from 1870, and the more modern photo of the MacGregor from his wedding a few years back, help me to illustrate my point.

And that is that things such as tartan waistcoats, doublets and jackets do have a precedent in the Highland tradition and continue to be part of that tradition today - either with a traditional or a contemporary flare.

[HenryT]

What does the rabble think of Andy Stewart's kit here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSB_BiNSZo

As far as Andy Stewart's rendition of the tune is concerned, I would quote Col. Jock Sinclair, "Yon's a cheesy tune; you'll no play that."

Henry

[McClef]

Somehow Mr Cumming manages to carry it off IMHO

He is very much an individualist and that is not always to the bad.

He even wore two sporrans whilst highland dancing in a version of Nicholas Nickleby and got away with it!

[SlackerDrummer]

As to the the tartan necktie with a kilt, there are those with bona fides who don't and there are those with bona fides who do. There is no "right" or "wrong"; the choice is yours.


source

[AFS1970]

I am generally not in favor of the matching tie and kilt but more because of the differences. I remember my mother teaching me that if you try to match two similar colors they will always look off but if you try to contrast two dissimilar colors they might actually compliment each other.

When I first got involved in Kilting there was a "gentleman" who I often saw at highland games near me. He was pointed out as a shining example of what not to wear. I do not remember the tartan but it was bright yellow. Just about everything was either this tartan or white. White hose with yellow tartan flashes, yellow tartan kilt, white shirt, yellow tartan tie, and to top it all off a yellow tartan glengarry. All one could say was Oh My!

[ccga3359]

Well I"m glad to see that you've made two out of three decisions. Dilemma #1- Gin or tonic? Screw it put both in the glass and call it a gin & tonic. Dilemma #2 - Matching tartan tie? Go with the tie but have as much of hidden so that only a some of it can be seen (this is what I choose to do when I wera a matching tartan tie). Dilemma #3 - Simple black leather day sporran of the full fur dress sporran you hold in your hand opposite the G&T?...