An alternative to "gentlemen"

[creagdhubh]

Alan,

I think I get it. You don't like the word gentleman because it connotes snobbery, dandyism, and, apparently, effeminancy to you. I resolve never to refer to you by that term. I hope the other XMarkers will honor your wishes as well. Simple enough solution.

I don't understand, though, why you seem so determined to make this an ongoing issue. There are many different types of folks on XMarks. Some of us like being referred to as gentlemen because we have a different understanding of what the term means. Is it not enough that despite our disagreement over the notion of "gentleman" that we have an appreciation for kilts in common? Let's leave these discussions to other online communities. No need to argue about things touching on class structure and "manliness" here.

Cordially,

David

***

[Panache]

You know...something "crude"..."dirty"..."working class"... and ..."Manly".

Alan (you big Leboski you! )

I personally think that Masculinity is not defined by being crude, dirty, or working class just like Femininity doesn't require daintiness and passivity.

I know some women warriors and they are still ladies and a number of gentleman that are quite "manly" though very polite and well dressed.

Masculinity and Femininity encompass a wide ranging array of behaviors and images. Certain aspects come into and out of vogue, but to limit one as soley Masculine or Feminine betrays the spectrum that is out there within the varied ranks of humanity.

Though I know the etymology of the word "gentleman" explains the term comes from referrence to those of gentle (noble) birth I have always taken it to mean to me those that were willing to embrace the nicer and more gentle side of their Masculinity. A gentleman (gentle man) enjoys looking nice, being neat, acting politely, pursuing artistic endeavors, and in general accepts the more "gentle" aspects of themselves.

The rest is just window dressing (but very nice window dressing it is!)


ith:

Cheers

Jamie

[Panache]

Alan,

One last thing, going back to your original query.

I think the term you are seeking is a "good fellow"

Defined by the Merriam-Webster online dictionary as

Good fellow : an affable companionable person

I think that this is a term, without the connotations you see and dislike in the word "gentleman", would be a good way for you to describe a decent good guy.


Cheers

Jamie

[macwilkin]

Alan (you big Leboski you! )

I personally think that Masculinity is not defined by being crude, dirty, or working class just like Femininity doesn't require daintiness and passivity.

I know some women warriors and they are still ladies and a number of gentleman that are quite "manly" though very polite and well dressed.

Masculinity and Femininity encompass a wide ranging array of behaviors and images. Certain aspects come into and out of vogue, but to limit one as soley Masculine or Feminine betrays the spectrum that is out there within the varied ranks of humanity.

Though I know the etymology of the word "gentleman" explains the term comes from referrence to those of gentle (noble) birth I have always taken it to mean to me those that were willing to embrace the nicer and more gentle side of their Masculinity. A gentleman (gentle man) enjoys looking nice, being neat, acting politely, pursuing artistic endeavors, and in general accepts the more "gentle" aspects of themselves.

The rest is just window dressing (but very nice window dressing it is!)


ith:

Cheers

Jamie

Well said, Jamie. My grandfather, who was an Iowa farmer and tractor mechanic in every sense of the word, also could dress to the nines for lodge or church.

T.

[Bugbear]

* Edit: sorry, nevermind.

[Father Bill]

Gee, are we really getting angry and rude about receiving compliments?

[hkjrb623]

There's a reason I never put a dandelion in my sig line here on X Marks. I may, actually give some thought to this, and dream up another equally ridiculous group. Maybe we should have a hiking boot as a symbol. Or a shotgun. Or a Scottish hammer. Or a crescent wrench. Or an oilcan. Or a pickaxe. You know...something "crude"..."dirty"..."working class"... and ..."Manly".

I vote for the shotgun. I'm a hunter, and shotguns never go out of style.

[guardsman]

I drink gin and tonic , wear a kilt can burp and fart the same time , but show me a goodlooking woman and I AM A GENT ! HAHAHAHA

[Alan H]

"Good fellow"

I kind of like it! Sort of.... Except that I'm not a "good fellow". I'm just a regular guy (dude) who happens to live in California, wears kilts, is a geek for a living, throws heavy stuff, and plays music when he has time.

Todd, of course if you want to wear your kilt and look like a throwback to 1920, you are welcome to do so. And if I happen to think you look like a freak and you're walking around in a costume, I am also welcome to do that, right? Not that I think you look like a freak, but I expect you get the point.

Why do I keep hammering on the issue?

Because I think I'm the only one here who actually writes about this side of the issue, but I hear from others now and then, that there are more people who agree with me than care to speak up about it. So while 40 of you may go on about various definitions of "gentleman" and your gin and tonics, you all get to put up with me...one person, offering a different perspective.

Now, I've been over something much like this, face-to-face with Panache, and I believe in the philosophy that "if it makes you happy, then by all means, go right ahead and do -it-"..whatever "it" may be. HOnest, I believe in that. ....Like throwing weights and stones, or buying cromachs. Whatever. If that's what makes you happy then by all means, go be happy.

HOWEVER....

Look at it this way.

Is there something odd about owning more than one kilt? No, of course not. Is there something odd about owning eighty kilts? Well......

I guess that might be OK. It seems a bit obsessive, you know, but whatever....I suppose.

Is there something odd about having more than one pair of kilt hose? No, of course not. Is there something a bit odd about owning twenty pairs of kilt hose and spending great amounts of time and spending hundreds of dollars to get *just the right hue of green* to set off one of the stripes in your Hunting MacSchnozzle kilt? Oh, and then walking out in the snow to set up your tripod and camera, to take multiple pictures of yourself from several angles to show off your impeccable taste and perfectly coordinated ensemble?

Not that you were doing DOING SOMETHING in the snow, and happened to be wearing a kilt...no, you just walked out there because you knew that the white background of the snow would allow the colors of your perfectly coordinated ensemble to be observed to the greatest effect.... Is there something WRONG with that?

Um, well...uh.... I suppose that might be OK. No, there's nothing really WRONG with this.

Is there something odd about guys wearing perfume?

Well, no, I mean... back in the 50's some of our fathers wore aftershave, and what's the difference you know? And some guys still wear Old Spice and obviously Brut and Hugo Boss or whatever it is still sell at least reasonably well.

It seems a bit odd to me, in 2011 that someone would go on and on about the hues and overtones of their several personal scents, but....hey, OK...nothing WRONG with it, right?

Is there something unsettling about going on about gin and tonic?

No, of course not. Gin and tonic is a perfectly good drink. Some MEN drink gin and tonic. Some women drink gin and tonic. It's no different from drinking rum or beer or diet pepsi for that matter.

Is there something strange or effeminate about thinking that a bespoke suit is a really nice thing to have?

Of course not. I would be delighted to be able to afford to own a custom-tailored suit. My father owned one. I'm sure that my grandfathers owned them, and all three of those men served in the US Military and either saw action under fire or served as a medical doctor treating men who were wounded. Wearing a tailored suit does not make someone effeminate.


So you can all pick one of my points, and very truly point out that...

....having a lot of kilts, or being choosy about the color of your kilt socks or tie or whatever does not make the person, or what they are writing about, "effeminate".

BUT.

Put them all together....

The guy who must have 75 kilts and pair of socks to match each one, which he picks out with great care, to be sure that the color matches a secondary stripe in a kilt, not to mention his ascot....and must also have a personal scent for each day... and of course is so gentlemanly that we MUST have our gin and tonic with twist of lime at 5:00 each day oh-so-proper and posts on and on about what is gentlemanly and what is not...

...which of course means that those who don't toe the line are boorish scum...

THEN

I have a problem with it. Obviously. The stinker is that I suspect that there are guys reading this forum who decide to move on because they have a problem with it as well.

OK, 'nuff said. I've made my point pretty clearly. DONE.


As for me, personally? You can just call me Alan, and the title "dude" works just fine for me.

[Alan H]

Gee, are we really getting angry and rude about receiving compliments?

Bill, if my sister in law was to compliment me on acting like a gentleman, I would be pleased. If one of the women or men in my department used the term approvingly, referring to me, I would consider it a compliment.

But on X Marks the Scot, the term seems to me to have gathered up a whole lot of connotations which have *Nothing* whatsoever to do with honorable, masculine, kind, and considerate behavior.

So in fact, were someone to refer to me, now as one of the "Gentlemen of X Marks the Scot", I would...yes....be annoyed by it.