An alternative to "gentlemen"

[davidlpope]

I think there is a pretty slim chance of that Alan, annoyance averted.

I must say, and we can discuss it further in person in a couple of weeks if you like, that I too find it odd that with all of your rantings about people being allowed to wear the kilt anyway they like, that you spend an awful lot of time on here telling others how they should or shouldn't behave, write, talk, drink, dress, photograph themselves,.... without it annoying you. That is just a backhanded way of implying your perspective, or way of doing things is somehow better, more real, more masculine(?) than what they are doing. It just seems inconsistent with what you frequently request of others here on Xmarks.

Respectfully,
Brooke

***.

I don't LIKE photograph after photograph after photograph taken by some guys who set up the shots, over and over again with an eye to nothing but showing off their finery to the best effect. Once in a while doesn't bother me, it's fine. Over and over again....it sends a message and I don't think it's good for the forum.

But if you ask me, it's not a whole lot farther down the road that we're on now, until this becomes Gentleman Tweedy Toms Place, and I, personally, am not interested in participating in that forum.

AND....I seem to be the only person on the forum who is willing to actually say this out loud.

If anyone wants to discuss the issue with me further, PM's are open. Tomorrow. Or whenever I log in, again, which may be a while.

Alan,

Much of the postings on XMarks are filled with people obsessing over small points of kilted dress, discussing small points of kilted dress, taking pictures of themselves in their new kilted outfit in the snow, wearing tweed, etc. If that sort of thing annoys you because you think it's unmanly, foppish, snobbish, etc. then perhaps you should follow your inclinations. Perhaps it's best to avoid all the frustration and have an online presence elsewhere. No one is twisting your arm to be here...

David

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

***.



Alan,

Much of the postings on XMarks are filled with people obsessing over small points of kilted dress, discussing small points of kilted dress, taking pictures of themselves in their new kilted outfit in the snow, wearing tweed, etc. If that sort of thing annoys you because you think it's unmanly, foppish, snobbish, etc. then perhaps you should follow your inclinations. Perhaps it's best to avoid all the frustration and have an online presence elsewhere. No one is twisting your arm to be here...

David

***.

[GoodGirlGonePlaid]

***.



Alan,

Much of the postings on XMarks are filled with people obsessing over small points of kilted dress, discussing small points of kilted dress, taking pictures of themselves in their new kilted outfit in the snow, wearing tweed, etc. If that sort of thing annoys you because you think it's unmanly, foppish, snobbish, etc. then perhaps you should follow your inclinations. Perhaps it's best to avoid all the frustration and have an online presence elsewhere. No one is twisting your arm to be here...

David

Geesh, that's pretty harsh!

So, in a semi-humoursly intended thread, geared towards the kilted "good fellas" on here, the "traditionalist" "gentleman" still get bothered?

[Lyle1]

***.



Alan,

Much of the postings on XMarks are filled with people obsessing over small points of kilted dress, discussing small points of kilted dress, taking pictures of themselves in their new kilted outfit in the snow, wearing tweed, etc. If that sort of thing annoys you because you think it's unmanly, foppish, snobbish, etc. then perhaps you should follow your inclinations. Perhaps it's best to avoid all the frustration and have an online presence elsewhere. No one is twisting your arm to be here...

David

So, if he doesn't like what you like, he should leave? The only way to have a forum is to tolerate, and even encourage, different opinions. Without a diverse membership, you only have a flock!

[davidlpope]

Geesh, that's pretty harsh!

So, in a semi-humoursly intended thread, geared towards the kilted "good fellas" on here, the "traditionalist" "gentleman" still get bothered?

No, not harsh at all. Trying to be helpful. Alan seems to be frustrated by his visits to XMarkstheScot.com because he sees things that he doesn't like. I'm suggesting that he avoid this frustration, nothing else.

A more simple analogy: If you don't like chocolate ice cream, don't eat it...

[longhuntr74]

Some lifestyles, even if money is abundant, do not require all of the "top shelf" items of life.

It's all about balance, if I understand this thread correctly. I *think* this thread is saying that everything doesn't have to be "top shelf" to be acceptable.

I certainly hope that things don't have to be top shelf to be acceptable...if that were the case, I guess I would never be acceptable in polite society. That being said, I've gotten to a point in my life where I've stopped buying cheap crap simply because of the price. Since I have been wearing business and business casual attire over the past year (instead of the usual camoflage uniform), I've started building my wardrobe. At the beginning of the year, the button-down shirts came off the rack at Kohl's because they were cheap and I needed to build a wardrobe that would keep me in business for several days at a time. Since that time, I've started to realize that most of those shirts fit very poorly...and have now started buying from places like Charles Tyrwhitt, Polo, and even Brooks Brothers (if I can get a good deal at the outlet). It's not about the brand, but rather quality fabrics, greater attention to detail in manufacturing, and getting a shirt that fits my body better. I hope that doesn't make me a snob.

I don't think that Alan would disagree with these viewpoints...but he happens to take greater interest in other items rather than designer clothing...such as a quality pair of hiking boots, outdoor sports equipment, highland athletics, etc. We have different interests...big deal.

Truth be told, I really like quality hiking boots and packs as well...but I really don't care much about threads having to do with Highland Athletics. I like watching them at the games...but I confess that I don't even take the time to look at discussion threads on here that pertain to training for them, etc. What I don't understand is, if Alan truly has no interest in the intricacies of finer Scottish attire...why doesn't he just follow the same rule and simply just pass over threads which deal with these things...instead of railing about how offensive he finds such discussions. Horses for courses...

But you're both wrong on one account.

I am expressing an opinion and at this point I am kind of taking the gloves off, because I happen to really like the forum and community of X Marks the Scot and I think that some of what I see isn't very helpful to the overall community.

I personally don't think these divisive threads are helpful to the community, Alan...you have expressed your opinions in this, and other, threads. I think we all know where you are coming from. Having been a member of XMTS for about 2+ years now, I can make a list of about 5 members of this community that I believe your comments are directed at. I think it's silly how worked up and emotional you get over what you perceive as their snobbery.

I don't LIKE photograph after photograph after photograph taken by some guys who set up the shots, over and over again with an eye to nothing but showing off their finery to the best effect. Once in a while doesn't bother me, it's fine. Over and over again....it sends a message and I don't think it's good for the forum.

Pictures where someone gets a new jacket and snaps a shot of it? Great! Pictures of YOU, Todd, in your kilt at your Military History Association get-together....Great! Someone gets a new kilt, and snaps a shot or two or three of it? Wonderful! Pictures of someone backpacking in a kilt? Super! Pictures of Pipe Bands, piping in kilts? Love 'em. Pictures of the SEKS Kilt group getting together and razzing the Abuser of Rubber Chickens? Wonderful. I think ....I think those are all wonderful. Guys repeatedly setting up their lovely camera to display the gloriousness of their perfectly coordinated kilted ensemble, assembled through spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars to show us all "how it's done"? No, no Todd. I'm not so keen on that.

I really don't know who you are referring to here? Panache would be the closest to fitting this description, I think...but I don't think your comments are directed at him...so perhaps this is more a perception that you have, rather than a common gripe of the silent majority that you claim to be a voice for. There are a couple of people on here that I would consider "name-droppers" in regards to the manufacturers of their jackets, kilts, etc. But none of those people post posed pictures in the manner in which you describe...just pictures of themselves out wearing the kilt and having a great time! As you have said above, you have no problem with those types of pictures.

I found the perfume thread to be mind boggling....But I'll be damned if I'm going to try to tell people that they can't discuss mens perfume on X Marks the Scot.

I agree on the cologne/perfume thread...I moused over the title and read the post preview...rolled my eyes (thinking it was one of the silliest things I've read in a long time on here)...and promptly moved on. Based on your other comments regarding the finer points of the discussion, I gather that you chose to click on it and read it. Again, why?? If it's not something that interests you, simply ignore it and move on. Don't rant about it.

[davidlpope]

So, if he doesn't like what you like, he should leave? The only way to have a forum is to tolerate, and even encourage, different opinions. Without a diverse membership, you only have a flock!

No. I'm more than happy to have Alan (or anyone for that matter) like what he likes. It doesn't matter if I like it or not. I'm in favor of a tolerant, diverse community where different opinions are accepted.

Alan, though, seems to be frustrated by the presence of other's opinions which he doesn't agree with (ones he considers unmanly, snobbish, and foppish) and complains about that. If it's that frustrating, I wonder why he continues to voluntarily expose himself to the irritant...

[davidlpope]

I personally don't think these divisive threads are helpful to the community, Alan...you have expressed your opinions in this, and other, threads. I think we all know where you are coming from. Having been a member of XMTS for about 2+ years now, I can make a list of about 5 members of this community that I believe your comments are directed at. I think it's silly how worked up and emotional you get over what you perceive as their snobbery.

I agree on the cologne/perfume thread...I moused over the title and read the post preview...rolled my eyes (thinking it was one of the silliest things I've read in a long time on here)...and promptly moved on. Based on your other comments regarding the finer points of the discussion, I gather that you chose to click on it and read it. Again, why?? If it's not something that interests you, simply ignore it and move on. Don't rant about it.

This.

[auld argonian]

Let me say that I do enjoy it when Alan gets into full ranting mode. As a fellow middle-aged man, I identify with it strenuously.

And in defense of Alan's point, I do have to admit that I, too, get a little tired of the cavalcade of "here I am again, dressed to the nines" photos and I usually just skip over them and recognize the members who indulge themselves that way and generally tend to not even look at the threads. I will check out threads like,"just got a new kilt" or "new jacket" cause they are mostly a member looking for some feedback...if I don't have anything positive to say, though, I just don't comment.

In the business world, I've often encountered the types that have to be right in style...obsessively so. Have to have THE correct tie, the current distinctive watch, this year's shoe....if it's not recognizably "designer", they don't bother...have to lease their cars on a short term because they just don't want to be caught dead driving the "wrong" car next year. (This year, it seems to be Audi's...). And they are firmly of the belief that it is their role to set and maintain the standards for the rest of us and that puts them in a class above the...dare I use the word...rabble. Some people find this admirable; I think of it as a weakness...probably born of a real sense of insecurity.

Now I DO know the ones who dress well, buy and wear quality, look great and move gracefully through the world but don't flaunt it or rely on it to differentiate themselves from the hoi-poloi. Sadly, these are mostly older fellas and many of them are gone now and theirs if the example that, if I have to aspire to any example, I want to follow.

I don't consider any of this in a context of whether or not it's "manly", maybe a certain degree of frivolousness or snobbery creeps in but I tend to just accept those kind of things as basic human foibles that are to be taken in stride.

So, having qualified my personal perspective on that, I'm guessing that Alan is just sayin' that he feels that the peacockery just might be sending the wrong message to the average bloke who comes here with the idea of getting into kilting; that he might see all of this and think that to be a genuine kiltie, he has to get into the matchy-matchy, twenty-seven different colors of kilt hose for all occasions, I-know-fifteen-different-necktie-knots, a kilt for every day of the month and special ones for Burns Night, St. Andrew's and the Jewish Holy Days outlook on life and feel like a schlub.

Awright....my two cents worth.

Best

AA

....and I DO NOT want to hear from the Audi owners..."....I'll have you know that I've been driving Audi's for the past thirty years and they are fine motor vehicles!"

[Alan H]

So, having qualified my personal perspective on that, I'm guessing that Alan is just sayin' that he feels that the peacockery just might be sending the wrong message to the average bloke who comes here with the idea of getting into kilting; that he might see all of this and think that to be a genuine kiltie, he has to get into the matchy-matchy, twenty-seven different colors of kilt hose for all occasions, I-know-fifteen-different-necktie-knots, a kilt for every day of the month and special ones for Burns Night, St. Andrew's and the Jewish Holy Days outlook on life and feel like a schlub.

This. Exactly.

Thank you.