McGregor dress tartan

[Dixiecat]

As you say, that's his personal opinion. He can't restrict the use and sale of the Dress MacGregor tartan even within his own clan. He obviously recognizes this too.

[okiescot]

M.A.C.Newsome, thank you for the links, which I read. The dress MacGregor I have is not the same as the dance tartan. Mine has an orange stripe in it. I would never dream of weariing this tartan when in Scotland nor when attending a Clan Gregor gathering. On the other hand I am tired of having a kilt just like everyone elses (modern red MacGregor and Scotland's National). The dress MacGregor certainly does not fall in that category. I can't even find a single picture of a kilt made from it.

The chief mentioned participating in highland games which I do every year. Our band has small ensembles that play at semi-formal events and it is for these occasions that I am primarily buying this kilt.

I shall probably buy this kilt and I am sorry if it offends anyone. I promise never to wear it when in Scotland nor while attending a Clan Gregor event. I hope that will be okay with those who oppose this tartan.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

As you say, that's his personal opinion. He can't restrict the use and sale of the Dress MacGregor tartan even within his own clan. He obviously recognizes this too.

Yes, it is his personal opinion, but I'll also expand on that by saying that it is the personal opinion of the chief of the Clan Gregor, and so carries a bit more weight than my opinion or yours in this particular matter. :-)

[Dixiecat]

Yes, it is his personal opinion, but I'll also expand on that by saying that it is the personal opinion of the chief of the Clan Gregor, and so carries a bit more weight than my opinion or yours in this particular matter. :-)

Not to me or to any dancer actually. He can't restrict the sale or use of the tartan. If you can't enforce something then it doesn't matter who he is. And, I would also venture to say that if one puts 'weight' into his opinion then one just becomes one of the kilt police. The very thing he doesn't want to anyone to become.

I just find it odd that he can 'officially' sanction a tartan that he had nothing to do with, although it is based on a clan tartan. The Dress MacGregor is not owned nor produced by the clan and wasn't designed by them either. There are no design nor production restrictions on it. Gah, thanks to him, I can see the kilt police showing up at competitions and giving dancers who don't compete at games a hard time for wearing the Dress MacGregor.

[okiescot]

I did not intend to start a disagreement, only to see what this particular tartan looks like on a kilt. I am now more confused than when I started. The dancing green in M.A.C. Newsome's thread link is not the same as the swatch I have which was shown in one of the first posts in this thread.

Where did the dress MacGregor tartan come from? Who designed it? While it is not at all common there is at least one mill in Scotland that will weave it. I do not know which mill it is as the maker did not choose to reveal that to me. It comes in 11 oz. and 16 oz., but not 13 oz.

I was going to attach a picture of the swatch I have, but I have not figured out how to do that.

[Paul Henry]

I did not intend to start a disagreement, only to see what this particular tartan looks like on a kilt. I am now more confused than when I started. The dancing green in M.A.C. Newsome's thread link is not the same as the swatch I have which was shown in one of the first posts in this thread.

Where did the dress MacGregor tartan come from? Who designed it? While it is not at all common there is at least one mill in Scotland that will weave it. I do not know which mill it is as the maker did not choose to reveal that to me. It comes in 11 oz. and 16 oz., but not 13 oz.

I was going to attach a picture of the swatch I have, but I have not figured out how to do that.

possibly this weaver?

MacGregor Dress

[okiescot]

paulhenry, thank you so very much, and that looks exactly like my swatch. You are a gentleman indeed.

[Highlander31]

....I shall probably buy this kilt and I am sorry if it offends anyone. I promise never to wear it when in Scotland nor while attending a Clan Gregor event. I hope that will be okay with those who oppose this tartan.

Okiescot, I would not be offended if I saw you wearing the tartan at any function. There are several members of the MacGregor clan, that have created their own version of the MacGregor tartan. If you like the look of D.C. Dalgliesh's Dress MacGregor tartan, then wear it as your personal kilt. You can always wear your MacGregor kilt at official clan functions if the need arises.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The MacGregor Green dance tartan that Sir Malcolm MacGregor references in his article about MacGregor clan tartans is indeed the same as the Dress MacGregor tartan in the swatch picture woven by Dalgliesh.

I'm not meaning to stir up controversy. My only intent is to share information about this tartan. It is actually quite rare to find a statement by a clan chief on a particular tartan such as this, so when one does exist it is nice to know.

According to long standing convention and Scottish tradition, it is the prerogative of the clan chief to determine what is and is not a legitimate clan tartan. This is a precedent that was established as far back as 1815 when the members of the Highland Society of London asked the various clan chiefs to supply a sample of "their" tartan for their collection -- many of those tartans still exist today, complete with the chief's seal attached.

Sir Malcolm MacGregor, current chief of the clan Gregor, has decided - because he was specifically asked by members of his clan, keep in mind - to approve this version of the MacGregor tartan as an official tartan of the clan, for use by dancers.

It is his prerogative as chief of the clan Gregor to determine what is and is not a tartan of the clan, and he is perfectly within his rights to make such a statement.

Now, Dixiecat is correct. He cannot tell anyone whether or not they can weave the tartan. He cannot tell anyone whether or not they can sell the tartan. And he certainly cannot tell anyone whether or not they can wear the tartan.

What he can do - which is all he is doing - is to inform the members of his clan (and anyone else interested) what is and is not considered an official tartan of the clan. In this case, the tartan in question is official, and his desire is for it to be worn by dancers of the clan.

This is what Sir Malcolm has to say about "tartan police."

People can obviously wear what they like within the bounds of good taste – the difficulty comes when they wear something which is not what it purports to be. The discussion is not helped by emotive phrases like ‘tartan police’ as if the chief goes around with sunglass clad outriders in boots ‘bagging’ anyone who is not wearing the right tartan. The kilt, tartan, and its accoutrements are peculiar to Scotland, people of Scottish descent, and those who wish to be affiliated to Scotland in some way. It should all be treated with a bit of respect as other nations do with their national forms of dress.

And from the same article:

Unfortunately, there are purveyors of tartan on the web and elsewhere who will tell people that they can wear what they like, when they like. This is disingenuous and leads to all sorts of problems. Those who are not sure should consult their relevant clan websites or speak to someone who has knowledge in these matters. There are plenty of good organisations and outfitters – the trick is to avoid those who would have you believe that anything goes, which merely leads to confusion and embarrassment. One of the purposes of this document is to clarify the situation for MacGregors and help those who man tents at highland games and Scottish gatherings, when the newcomer asks ‘what tartan should I wear?’

[okiescot]

I stand corrected on the dancing tartan not being the same as mine. It appeared to have black in it, but when I clicked on the picture it showed an enlarged image which was indeed the same as mine. I appologize for my mistake.