An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[SlackerDrummer]

"Jock",

I have read your two recent surveys with great interest as well as many of the comments in the recent thread regarding the diaspora v. native Scots. One thing that came up both places and that comes up in many of your posts is the idea of non-Scots "playing at being a Scot" and you and many of your survey participants seem absolutely befuddled at the idea of folks outwith Scotland wearing the kilt. So I have a question for you. If one of your sons were presented with the opportunity to take a well-paying job in America (and took it), should he leave his kilt in Scotland? And should he decide to stay (God forbid), should he abandon passing this traditional garb to his children? Would you be okay with your grandkids not having this cultural connection to you?

I hope I don't seem like I'm being disrespectful, because I'm not. I just wonder if a lot of this particular attitude that we see from native Scots is because they aren't looking at it from a personal perspective. Maybe they are. That's why I'm asking.

Best,

[Jock Scot]

"Jock",

I have read your two recent surveys with great interest as well as many of the comments in the recent thread regarding the diaspora v. native Scots. One thing that came up both places and that comes up in many of your posts is the idea of non-Scots "playing at being a Scot" and you and many of your survey participants seem absolutely befuddled at the idea of folks outwith Scotland wearing the kilt. So I have a question for you. If one of your sons were presented with the opportunity to take a well-paying job in America (and took it), should he leave his kilt in Scotland? And should he decide to stay (God forbid), should he abandon passing this traditional garb to his children? Would you be okay with your grandkids not having this cultural connection to you?

I hope I don't seem like I'm being disrespectful, because I'm not. I just wonder if a lot of this particular attitude that we see from native Scots is because they aren't looking at it from a personal perspective. Maybe they are. That's why I'm asking.

Best,

Actually I answered a theoretical question about this not so long ago except my brother was the subject of example.

In truth it is down to my son to decide what he would do. As he was one of those(and his two brothers) who answered the F4T2 survey I think I can answer with some accuracy. In passing, I could not have answered accurately before the survey. I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

Should they all retain British citizenship then it seems that they would wear the kilt in the Highlands-----well until the children(my grand children) were old enough to decide for themselves.

[SlackerDrummer]

Thanks, Jock.

[McClef]

If the wearing of the kilt was truly limited to Highlanders and only in Scotland then there would be no need for international forums such as this.

That, Jock, I am afraid is the logical conclusion of your survey results.

[cessna152towser]

As a Scot I am happy to see people of other nations wearing the kilt, whether in a traditional tartan or in North American Utilikilt non-trad styles.
What does irritate me is people who play at being Scots and insist they know better than native Scots. I once spotted a guy at a highland games wearing a Cunningham tartan kilt and this being my family name I struck up a conversation with him. He turned out to be an American and was absolutely insistent that the tartan was Robertson and not Cunningham.

[Guinness>water]

I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

That amazes me. I had no idea Scots thought of the kilt with such restriction. I figured yall would be proud that others carry on the tradition, specially your own blood!.

Wow.

*****Sorry, just saw Cessna152towser's reply. Didnt mean to speak for all Scots.******

[Peter Crowe]

I suppose the answer to your question depends on how anyone (from Scotland) received the Kilt growing up within their family.

I grew up in a family where my father was renowned in our community for being a 'Kiltie' since boyhood (1940's/1950's). He became a Merchant Navy Officer, later a Master Mariner and often took his kilt to sea as a change from his uniform when going ashore all around the world. Until I frequented XMTS last year, I had never heard the idea that some people believed it a social faux pas or bad form to wear the kilt outwith Scotland. I was surprised by it, because my father was brought up with very traditional views about such things, and is not the type of man to flout convention.

I was brought up with a similar outlook albeit in a less socially conservative time (mid-1960's onwards).

I (who am a native born Scot)] don't share Jock Scot's opinion about Traditional Highland Civilian Dress being only for wear by native Scots (especially Highlanders) within Scotland (especially north of Perth). I respect that he and no doubt many others view it differently to me. Nor do I feel put out, aggrieved, or slighted by their opinion on the matter. I do however, agree with much of Jock's advice about how Highland dress should be worn well.

I now live in the United States and continue to wear my kilt (usually with tweed daywear) fairly often when the occasion seems appropriate. So does my three and a half year old American born son without the tweed, who after all has living connections through me to our wider kilt wearing family still residing in various parts of Scotland including; Caithness, Aberdeenshire, Perthshire, Glasgow City, Renfrewshire, Dunbartonshire, and Lanarkshire.

I do however, believe it is inappropriate to wear the kilt, if by doing so you outshine your host and hostess (unless specially requested to do so) or the principal guest(s) at any social function.

I suspect you will find a variety of opinions on the subject.

[Jock Scot]

If the wearing of the kilt was truly limited to Highlanders and only in Scotland then there would be no need for international forums such as this.

That, Jock, I am afraid is the logical conclusion of your survey results.

Logical perhaps, we all know that the cat is out of the bag and there is nothing any one, not even a Highlander , can do about it.

So what to do? Well you can take a "dog in the manger attitude " or you can try to get those outwith Scotland to understand that the kilt is not just a piece of clothing and some Scots are troubled by this way of thinking.

All I am pointing out to those that are willing to read what I and others are saying, with an open mind that there are real---very real----- reservations, misconceptions about the kilt. For example the "honour" thing, the "flattery" thing, the "I can wear the kilt how I damn well like" thing, the "no one can tell me how, when and where I like" stuff.

I quite accept that those that don't care are a lost cause. I quite accept that all this is a two way thing, but unless someone points out these reservations and that these preconceived ideas are in fact unsound, then no one is going to get anywhere and that is at the very least is not helpful all round.

So some of this "food for thought" is hard to digest for some, but as far as I am concerned if just one person outwith Scotland actually thinks that there is another point of view, even if they are not actually going to change anything then I feel that I have achieved a wee something. In fact to the credit of many members on this website they appear to have thought quite hard about what I am saying. I can ask no more.

[kilted scholar]

Actually I answered a theoretical question about this not so long ago except my brother was the subject of example.

In truth it is down to my son to decide what he would do. As he was one of those(and his two brothers) who answered the F4T2 survey I think I can answer with some accuracy. In passing, I could not have answered accurately before the survey. I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

Should they all retain British citizenship then it seems that they would wear the kilt in the Highlands-----well until the children(my grand children) were old enough to decide for themselves.

On that basis the London Scottish should no longer have kilts, the Caledonian ball in London should cease forthwith - and so on and so forth ad infinitum!!!

[Woodsheal]

Actually I answered a theoretical question about this not so long ago except my brother was the subject of example.

In truth it is down to my son to decide what he would do. As he was one of those(and his two brothers) who answered the F4T2 survey I think I can answer with some accuracy. In passing, I could not have answered accurately before the survey. I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

Should they all retain British citizenship then it seems that they would wear the kilt in the Highlands-----well until the children(my grand children) were old enough to decide for themselves.

An interesting view, but by no means universal. My dear friend Victor, WWII Royal Navy veteran and soon to turn 90, emigrated to the US from Scotland in the late '50s. A half-century later he still proudly (and impeccably) wears his kilt to various events (including kilt nights at the local pub!). His lovely wife Anne does not hesitate to don her tartan. Son Ken (totally "americanized" but proud of his heritage) owns and wears a kilt as well.