An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[Jock Scot]

On that basis the London Scottish should no longer have kilts, the Caledonian ball in London should cease forthwith - and so on and so forth ad infinitum!!!

Well, yes.

I have tried to exclude the military in all this. Regimental pride does win battles and helps recruiting and a first rate uniform has worked wonders. The Caledonian Ball could be construed as an "any excuse for a party" type thing and gives the "pocket" Scot a chance to show how Scootish they are. OK, Ok not all that go are "pocket" Scots, so why not have a party that makes people happy? Well I suppose, why not!

[RockyR]

As a Scot I am happy to see people of other nations wearing the kilt, whether in a traditional tartan or in North American Utilikilt non-trad styles.
What does irritate me is people who play at being Scots and insist they know better than native Scots. I once spotted a guy at a highland games wearing a Cunningham tartan kilt and this being my family name I struck up a conversation with him. He turned out to be an American and was absolutely insistent that the tartan was Robertson and not Cunningham.

I completely agree with you that numpties are numpties no matter what country they're from. America has more than our fair share.

One thing to note however... Just b/c one is a native born Scot does not mean that they're always correct in 'matters of the kilt' either. I believe that I know more than the common person about Kilts as it's my job. I've had several occasions where people from Scotland told me, in my own shop, (about jacket style names such as "Braemar", about tartan names, etc) that I didn't know what I was talking about. When I showed them tartan swatches from the mills (with names attached) and other websites who corroborated my facts, I was told that the mills must have it wrong in the swatch book, etc.

As another example, look at how many from Jock's survey knew / didn't know whether their kilt was pleated to sett or stripe. Look at last year's survey to find out how many were wrong!

Knowledge is the key, no matter who the person is and no matter the nationality, though being a native Scot and growing up immersed int he culture DOES give you an advantage. We who are outwith Scotland have to do our research / homework to catch up!

[kilted scholar]

Well, yes.

I have tried to exclude the military in all this. Regimental pride does win battles and helps recruiting and a first rate uniform has worked wonders. The Caledonian Ball could be construed as an "any excuse for a party" type thing and gives the "pocket" Scot a chance to show how Scootish they are. OK, Ok not all that go are "pocket" Scots, so why not have a party that makes people happy? Well I suppose, why not!

While the Caledonian Ball is not exactly my cup of tea - nor any ball or specially coloured tie do either - it appears that Highland evening dress is required (unless in military garb), and that in England.

It seems to me that these views are a definite minority report, and a small one at that.

[Jock Scot]

While the Caledonian Ball is not exactly my cup of tea - nor any ball or specially coloured tie do either - it appears that Highland evening dress is required (unless in military garb), and that in England.

It seems to me that these views are a definite minority report, and a small one at that.

My views are not unique and they may or may not be a minority view. The point that I have been trying to get across is that, they exist and people from outwith Scotland might like to be rather more aware of them they may have been. That is all, apart that I have tried to answer a question that was asked of me.

[Alan H]

I have to say that I like Jock Scot. He's a good man, he's got his opinions but he's reasonable about them. He doesn't force his ideas down anyones gullet, but if asked, he'll tell you what he thinks. I can't imagine how anybody would have a problem with this.

I've enjoyed his posts about querying his family and friends about kilts, attitudes regarding the kilt and so on. They're interesting and entertaining. I LIKE Jock. I RESPECT Jock. I might ask Jocks opinion about something and if I did so, I'd listen to, and pay attention to what he has to say.

BUT.... Gentlemen and dudes...... while I really like Jock, Jock and his friends are at most a dozen or two people in the world who happen to wear kilts. Why on earth are so many people worrying about what these guys say? Were we to drive 30 miles to elsewhere in Scotland and ask similar questions of a different group of Highlands dwellers, we'd probably get different answers.

Jock knows what he and his friends and neighbors think. BUT...

1. Just because Jock lives in the Highlands, and
2. because he's a gentleman with *ahem* a number of years of experience,

does NOT mean that Jocks opinions and thoughts define what is, and is not "right to do" in terms of wearing a kilt, everywhere and any time in the entire world.

Cede the man the right to his opinions. Listen to what he says. Learn from what he says, because he knows a fair bit, eh?. But for heavens sake, the man doesn't sit at the right hand of God!

LITTLE STATEMENT OF FACT: I like Jock. I would be honored to share a dram with him and perhaps drop a line in one of his streams and share some baked salmon with the fellow, were I ever to get to Scotland. I respect Jocks opinions and experience. I recognize that I may very well learn something from Jock. But I'm not going to define every detail of how or when I wear a kilt, just to suit Jock and his friends' opinions.

......rather like how I love and respect my father, but I'm not going to live my life for the sole purpose of making him happy.

[Bugbear]

Logical perhaps, we all know that the cat is out of the bag and there is nothing any one, not even a Highlander , can do about it.

So what to do? Well you can take a "dog in the manger attitude " or you can try to get those outwith Scotland to understand that the kilt is not just a piece of clothing and some Scots are troubled by this way of thinking.

All I am pointing out to those that are willing to read what I and others are saying, with an open mind that there are real---very real----- reservations, misconceptions about the kilt. For example the "honour" thing, the "flattery" thing, the "I can wear the kilt how I damn well like" thing, the "no one can tell me how, when and where I like" stuff.

I quite accept that those that don't care are a lost cause. I quite accept that all this is a two way thing, but unless someone points out these reservations and that these preconceived ideas are in fact unsound, then no one is going to get anywhere and that is at the very least is not helpful all round.

So some of this "food for thought" is hard to digest for some, but as far as I am concerned if just one person outwith Scotland actually thinks that there is another point of view, even if they are not actually going to change anything then I feel that I have achieved a wee something. In fact to the credit of many members on this website they appear to have thought quite hard about what I am saying. I can ask no more.

I have listened, Jock, and I no longer wear tartan or the kilt of Highland attire. We have our own version of a non-tartan kilt over here, but it has nothing to do with Highland attire.

[Jock Scot]

I have to say that I like Jock Scot. He's a good man, he's got his opinions but he's reasonable about them. He doesn't force his ideas down anyones gullet, but if asked, he'll tell you what he thinks. I can't imagine how anybody would have a problem with this.

I've enjoyed his posts about querying his family and friends about kilts, attitudes regarding the kilt and so on. They're interesting and entertaining.
I LIKE Jock. I RESPECT Jock. I might ask Jocks opinion about something and if I did so, I'd listen to, and pay attention to what he has to say.

BUT. ... Gentlemen and dudes...... while I really like Jock, Jock and his friends are at most a dozen or two people in the world who happen to wear kilts. Why on earth are so many people worrying about what these guys say? Were we to drive 30 miles to elsewhere in Scotland and ask similar questions of a different group of Highlands dwellers, we'd probably get different answers.

Jock knows what he and his friends and neighbors think. BUT...

1. Just because Jock lives in the Highlands, and
2. because he's a gentleman with *ahem* a number of years of experience,

does NOT mean that Jocks opinions and thoughts define what is, and is not "right to do" in terms of wearing a kilt, everywhere and any time in the entire world.

Cede the man the right to his opinions. Listen to what he says. Learn from what he says, because he knows a fair bit, eh?.

But for heavens sake, the man doesn't sit at the right hand of God!

I don't think I qualify to sit at the right hand of anyone Alan, but thank you for your kind words!

As Alan so rightly points out if you ask me question then I give the answer you get. What you do with it, is entirely your own affair!

[Alan H]

I don't think I qualify to sit at the right hand of anyone Alan, but thank you for your kind words!

As Alan so rightly points out if you ask me question then I give the answer you get. What you do with it, is entirely your own affair!

I might also add...as has happened a few times on the board, that if you ask Jocks opinion, LISTEN to it, and give it some weight. What you choose to do with it, as he says, is up to you.

But to ask his opinion and then bellow at him that you don't LIKE his opinion, and that you're going to wear it the way you damn well please is just rude and stupid. Jock is "old school". Nothing wrong with that, but if you don't want to hear an "old school" opinion, then don't bug the man with demands for his opinion!

BTW Jock, I'll sit at your right hand if I ever get to Scotland, and Mrs. Jock lets me!

[ctbuchanan]

This discussion continues to repeat itself in various forms on this forum. I'm stumped as to why it matters? The kilt is an international garment, a result of the Scottish Diaspora, and therefore worn around the world. I just find the whole question of the propriety of someone outside of Scotland wearing a kilt as totally perplexing. The Irish might as equally try to ban the wearing of green or the French ban the wearing of a beret.

We write many, many posts promoting the wearing of the kilt as an everyday garment, or at least worn more frequently; then have a guilty conscience and wonder if we should be wearing it at all? Wear away I say, the more the better!

UP THE KILT!

Clarification: I'm not commenting or criticizing on Jock's reply, I question why the original question even gets posted.

[Nick the DSM]

Is it me, or are these topics really coming up alot lately?

Just remain respectful I suppose.