An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[Jock Scot]

Okay, fair enough, you don't play at being a Norman, Pole, German etc. but in response please see Sir William's post above -- and because it's just plain fun! BTW: plenty of people here do "play at" (in your terms) being Germans, Russians, Mexicans, Poles, cowboys, sailors, Confederates (especially "here" in the South), doctors, lawyers, (some even with the credentials to back it up) and indian chiefs ... and as Islandkilt notes, the ultimate alternative would be to end up naked and unshaven in the back yard, pounding rocks together, which if it were a warm day and the neighbors didn't complain, might be fun too but then someone might say that would just be "playing caveman" and some "real" caveman might take offense or "just not get it!" If a "real" cave man were to say: "Why in the world would anyone want to be a caveman," I'd begin to wonder about how he feels about being one himself. We all play at something, at least sometimes. Otherwise, life can be pretty dull. And again, sometimes a kilt is just more comfortable than trousers, period!

No I don't play at being a Norman etc . I have to be careful here , but I think I am on fairly safe ground to say that most Scots don't( ok let us wait for the exception to chip in!)do as a matter of course "roots". I think that a few do military reenactment of one sort of another, perhaps a bit of "knights" jousting and of course the Jacobite thing. But on the whole it is nothing to do with what GGGGGGrandPappy got up to.

Yes we have our interests, football, beer , women, vintage cars, guns, fishing and so on but funnily enough kilts would probably not register very high on the list(as an interest) and delving into our ancestry would probably appear even lower on the list.

Now I have given an example of an Aussie wanting to borrow a kilt for a "Scots night" and yes I can see that, I can accept easily an American saying I wear the kilt because it is comfortable, I can accept a young Latvian lad saying I wear the kilt because it "pulls" the girls, I can accept a Pole saying I wear the kilt because I like the tartan pattern and many more just as valid reasons.

I don't understand this honour and respect of "my" ancestors reason that many on this website from outwith Scotland freely voice and whilst I accept that these reasons are genuinely held and meant by many voicing this view, it fails to register in Scotland for some and of course me. We in Scotland, if we do and many do, just respect our ancestors in a less high profile way and of course quietly wearing wearing our tartan is one of those ways, but then we are Scots, thats what Scots do.

[Tobus]

Post Script: If a man wears trousers, is he "playing at" being a Saxon?

While that may have been in jest, it does touch on a subject that some, including Scots, may not want to admit.

All the world over, people have adopted American styles of dress. Blue jeans (especially Levi Strauss) have become wildly popular. You can hardly look anywhere in the world without seeing people wearing American style sneakers, trousers, t-shirts, baseball caps, etc.

Are they playing at being Americans?

Or is it just part and parcel of being a human being in this global age, where styles which were once unique to a particular country have been exported elsewhere?

Let's be honest. Every culture borrows styles from other cultures. These things may wax and wane in popularity, but to imply that any particular one is "playing at" being another is an exercise in futility. No doubt there are a select few individuals who actually do "play at" or pretend to be from another culture in an effort to deceive. But the vast majority are simply borrowing a style as it suits their fancy or if they feel a kinship to that particular culture. It's human nature. It's really not that hard to "get it", considering that it happens everywhere.

And I daresay that every single one of us have done it in one form or another. Whether it's a native Scot wearing distinctly English styles, or a German wearing distinctly American clothing, or an American wearing distinctly Scottish garb.

We Americans don't sit here and shake our heads at Europeans wearing blue jeans. We may chuckle a little when we see a busload of Japanese tourists in the Western stores buying up all the cowboy boots and Stetson hats, but we don't go home and worry about why they would want to play at being Americans. We're actually pretty proud that others would want to emulate us, and if some Scots can't feel the same about their own culture, one has to ask... why not?

[MT4Runner]

It would also help if you made better word choices and said something along the lines of simply not understanding why Americans have such an interest in Scottish culture. Phrases such as "playing at being a Scot" are insulting and inflammatory. Some have tried to explain why they view some of your posts as unkind, even rude, which did not please you. However, their comments would have had quite a different flavor if they had implied that you were "playing at being a gentleman."

Do remember that a) we are in two or three of many nations separated by a common language and b) you can only be insulted if you accept the insult.

If "playing at being a Scot" is derogatory in Scotland, then it's inflammatory. If it's only derogatory to the reader, it's another reflection of the imperfect medium of written Internet dialogue!!

[MT4Runner]

All the world over, people have adopted American styles of dress. Blue jeans (especially Levi Strauss) have become wildly popular. You can hardly look anywhere in the world without seeing people wearing American style sneakers, trousers, t-shirts, baseball caps, etc.

Are they playing at being Americans?

Or is it just part and parcel of being a human being in this global age, where styles which were once unique to a particular country have been exported elsewhere?

And I daresay that every single one of us have done it in one form or another. Whether it's a native Scot wearing distinctly English styles, or a German wearing distinctly American clothing, or an American wearing distinctly Scottish garb.

Very, very, very well-said.

[be da veva]

I'm reminded of the movie ''My big fat greek wedding''. They don't live in greece, but they sure are proud of their culture. BTW, When I was young, I had a lot of greek neighbors and the movie is pretty much spot on. The same thing could be said about the italians. And when asked about their nationalities, they were greek/italian first, then canadian.... I think the same could be said about any nationality.

[Jock Scot]

Do remember that a) we are in two or three of many nations separated by a common language and b) you can only be insulted if you accept the insult.

If "playing at being a Scot" is derogatory in Scotland, then it's inflammatory. If it's only derogatory to the reader, it's another reflection of the imperfect medium of written Internet dialogue!!

Actually this "playing at being a Scot" it is not used as a derogatory term in Scotland, it is just used as a term to describe a state of affiars. It is you chaps that have taken offence to it, where none is intended. However I apologise if offence has been given, but I can assure you that none was meant. So now who is being sensitive?

Ok I am sorry I could not resist it. Another example of a not so common language I suppose.

[be da veva]

Just to add a litle more, I am part of the Invisible Majority. Wearing a kilt also helps to define that I have a cultural background and that being a white caucasian doesn't mean I come from nowhere, or that my parents appeared out of the blue in Montreal....
Some ethnicities you can spot easily enough, others you can guess. Some are pretty much unknowable because of the similarities.

[Alan H]

For heavens sake, guys...the man has his opinion. Quit hounding him about it.


Also.

I think we all should descend upon Jocks home, having plotting the whole invasion with the help of Mrs. Jock such that he has no reasonable means of excape, and squire him off to some stream in the vicinity and catch some fish. Then we go back to his house, broil the the fish, drink some whisky, and tell lies.

[O'Searcaigh]

No I don't play at being a Norman etc . I have to be careful here , but I think I am on fairly safe ground to say that most Scots don't( ok let us wait for the exception to chip in!)do as a matter of course "roots". I think that a few do military reenactment of one sort of another, perhaps a bit of "knights" jousting and of course the Jacobite thing. But on the whole it is nothing to do with what GGGGGGrandPappy got up to.

Yes we have our interests, football, beer , women, vintage cars, guns, fishing and so on but funnily enough kilts would probably not register very high on the list(as an interest) and delving into our ancestry would probably appear even lower on the list.

Now I have given an example of an Aussie wanting to borrow a kilt for a "Scots night" and yes I can see that, I can accept easily an American saying I wear the kilt because it is comfortable, I can accept a young Latvian lad saying I wear the kilt because it "pulls" the girls, I can accept a Pole saying I wear the kilt because I like the tartan pattern and many more just as valid reasons.

I don't understand this honour and respect of "my" ancestors reason that many on this website from outwith Scotland freely voice and whilst I accept that these reasons are genuinely held and meant by many voicing this view, it fails to register in Scotland for some and of course me. We in Scotland, if we do and many do, just respect our ancestors in a less high profile way and of course quietly wearing wearing our tartan is one of those ways, but then we are Scots, thats what Scots do.

Ahh, now we have something, and very nicely said. Perhaps Americans take a different view of their "roots" because (unless you are a native Cherokee, etc) their deep roots are rather far way in both space and time. One's sense of who one is -- their personal identity -- is a very complicated (and potentially problematic) thing and a sense of "connectedness" is something many long for. I am now living in the south where many here have "roots" going back at least to Davy Crocket (a neighbor is a direct descendant) and they tend to "play at" being other things (other than Tennessee-ans) much less than say folks living in southern California where one can find just about any kind of ethnic thing to "play at" most any time of the year. Jock, you don't have to "seek out" your ancestors to honor them. They are all around you. Ours aren't! Oh, and I especially appreciate your acknowledgment and recognition of reasons like "it's just more comfortable" or "it pulls the girls in" or "hey, what a beautiful tartan" -- reasons enough, I'd say!

[Alan H]

BTW, Jock, the reason I play at being a Scot at various times at the Games is because it's fun.

Now, back to planning the invasion of Castle Jock.