An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[Bugbear]

Devine also discusses the problems with the Scoto-centric (Scots invented and did everything good and useful in the world we know) point of view in the first chapter, if I remember correctly; it comes up on the forum from time to time...

I have tried very hard to understand the "Jock Scot" point of view about the kilt and Scottish culture, and in doing so, I have very much come to understand it is not my culture. So I try to avoid attributing our crazy American ways, like canvas kilts, to Scottish culture. That's all I can do.

[ctbuchanan]

@bugbear Well said. I contributed a post or two very early in this thread and my question basically was - why are we concerned about this?

We never asked Scotland for permission to create the craze that is "Scottishness" in the USA (for lack of a better word). We certainly never asked for permission to wear the kilt. And I doubt with almost certainty that we will stop with any of it.

Scotland to some extent should be a little pleased with the fact that the diaspora have made "Scotland" a household word around the world and the kilt one of the most enduring symbols of any nation; one that probably equals the Eiffel tower and exceeds Big Ben and we get the pleasure of wearing it!

And oh by the way, Devine does not miss this point either when he talks about the huge impact of "Roots Tourism" in Scotland.

[Sir William]

Oh I am well aware of the fifth column lurking. My security service informs me that on or around 15/18 of April an attempt to infiltrate the camp will be made. Heh Heh Heh, we have our methods of looking after these fellows, I can assure you!

In the meantime the gun crew are instructed to fire at, on first sight, any boat with pointy bits at each end. I should mention that they have never been known to miss.

My entire plan is blown! There must be a spy in our camp!

[Father Bill]

Bug, I think you may have got it straight for me there. This is not Scottish culture. It's North American Scottish-ness. ...and just like the other "Ness" it can become a monster.

Jock, I'll understand better now, thanks to Bug and CTBuchanan that what we do seems foreign to you. Please understand though, that what we are doing here is (in my new mind-set) not Scottishness adopted in North America. It's Scottish-ness that has become part of North America - a reflection, not an adoption, and certainly not an invasion of Scotland, and that means that it is in that form a part of our culture - not us borrowing yours. If that makes any sense at all.

Thanks for perervering as those of us with this point of view try to sort it out for ourselves, and thanks for tolerating me when I've been frustrated.

[Tobus]

And oh by the way, Devine does not miss this point either when he talks about the huge impact of "Roots Tourism" in Scotland.

Yes, even if some native Scots want to pull their hair out at the way we Americans bastardize their culture, just see what happens if we stopped the flow of tourist dollars or the money we spend on kilts and tartan tat.

I daresay the wailing would be even louder then.

Methinks this is what they call a love-hate relationship.

[Tobus]

Oh, one more thing I was thinking about...

At the risk of beating this poor dead horse which is starting to smell queerly, I have been pondering Jock Scot's question about why we don't just "be American" instead of trying to "play at being a Scot".

The answer is very simple. We ARE being American. This is what Americans do. Our culture is not written in stone, and there is no such thing here as "it just isn't done". The culture is what we make it, and if some of us want to include pieces of our ancestry in it, then that's exactly what it will be. It is a perfectly American thing to do, and always has been. So rest assured, good sir, that by including Scottish elements in American culture, we are keeping American culture right on track where it's always been!

[Tony]

Oh, one more thing I was thinking about...

At the risk of beating this poor dead horse which is starting to smell queerly, I have been pondering Jock Scot's question about why we don't just "be American" instead of trying to "play at being a Scot".

The answer is very simple. We ARE being American. This is what Americans do. Our culture is not written in stone, and there is no such thing here as "it just isn't done". The culture is what we make it, and if some of us want to include pieces of our ancestry in it, then that's exactly what it will be. It is a perfectly American thing to do, and always has been. So rest assured, good sir, that by including Scottish elements in American culture, we are keeping American culture right on track where it's always been!

might as well end this thread right here. It don't get better than that as a summation from the American side.

[ccga3359]

In the meantime the gun crew are instructed to fire at, on first sight, any boat with pointy bits at each end. I should mention that they have never been known to miss.

After a dozen years as helmsman in the ccg-aux there just 'aint nothing resembling a pointy bit, stem nor stern. Crash they call me, that and Cap'n afthole, "the force to be wrecking with"...

Anyhow I digress. Where's the keys? I'll drive to Jock's.

[BobsYourUncle]

I would just like to say for the record that I appreciate Jock Scot's input. While they may be a trifle hard to swallow at times, his opinions and experiences are always honest and truthful.

It would be folly to pretend that all Scots are perfectly at ease with the rest of the world wearing their cultural dress. We may not always like to hear it, but he brings us a "reality check" sometimes which, to be quite frank, we desperately need. I have never heard him declare that we should not be allowed to wear the kilt however we like, or insinuate in any way that we are "wrong". He simply tells us the way that he and other Scots view the wearing of the kilt, both in Scotland and outwith Scotland.

As the old adage says, "don't shoot the messenger". Would you rather have no input from native Scots? Or only hear the opinions of Scots who say what we like? I, for one, think it would be a true loss if we were to reject the input of those who are immersed in Highland culture. It's an important viewpoint to consider, even if it ruffles our feathers on occasion.

And let us not forget that Jock Scot has been every bit the gentleman in providing advice and help in "getting it right" when it comes to wearing the kilt. He has innumerable posts on this forum with helpful tips and suggestions on how the kilt is worn in Scotland. If he were so adamant that no one but Highlanders wear the kilt, as some here have suggested, why would he continuously provide such valuable advice?

Personally, I think he has shown a tremendous amount of helpfulness to us all here by sharing his thoughts. Whether it's delving into such issues as how to avoid being "matchy-matchy", or "Jocking a bonnet", or what-have-you, I've always found his posts to be a delightful insight into traditional Highland thinking.

So even though it may occasionally ruffle our sensibilities to hear about some Scots' opinions on the wearing of the kilt outside the Highlands, I think it's always better to have the complete truth, and make our own decisions based on that.

Cheers Jock!

Amen to that! Hear Hear! Jock Scot is great in my book, even though he disagrees with my choices concerning kilt wearing and heritage. Thank you Jock Scot for your many and sustained contributions to this forum. Yours Aye, BYU

[dfmacliam]

can we take your truck, Grant?....I want to ride along....LOL