hose resources for "calves of substance"

[Alan H]

A hundred and forty dollars for a pair of socks.

Guys, I understand value and fit and all that. I also understand how much work it takes to make such a pair of socks. I have no doubt that these socks are a hundred and forty dollars worth of labor and materials. But you, perfectly straight-faced (I assume) just told someone to spend a hundred and forty dollars for a pair of socks.

We have...how to say this.... a very different perspective on things. Now, if Joshua just really, really wants patterned or diced socks and damn the price, then probably that's what he has to pay. I, personally can not for the life of me see the point in spending a hundred and forty dollars for a pair of socks, and would never do it. They're SOCKS..

...socks, guys.... socks. They wear out in the heels rather quickly, you know? At least mine do.

Hey, like I said, a different perspective, different values. Just thought I'd present mine.

[sydnie7]

Alan, in your other thread you expose yourself (so to speak) as a walking, talking, accident-waiting-to-happen kinda guy. If I had the cost-per-wear experiences that you do, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on clothing either.

But whether it's a kilt or any other garment, the cost per wear is an important part of the equation. You'll buy relatively expensive hiking boots because you use them a lot, and they amortize out to an acceptable price -- especially if you have ever tried to hike in cheap boots!

Other people purchase expensive [fill in the blank] because the cost per wear is acceptable in their eyes. We regularly read on this forum about kilts and jackets and yes even socks that were purchased X number of decades ago and are still being used. Perhaps these are people who have a less magnetic personality than you, and are not as attractive to the stray cup of coffee/glass of red wine/glob of epoxy or pine pitch. Perhaps they are like my mother, and darn any weak point in a sock before it has a chance to develop into a hole [I swear she has socks older than I am. . .].

You know how much work goes into a kilt, and you've purchased at least one kilt from another maker. I'm in the "baby steps" stages of knitting kilt hose. I don't know if I will ever get to the skill level to attempt diced, much less argyle hose. But it has given me an appreciation for the time and skill required. No, Bob's not going to buy any $140 hose either (unless tomorrow's lottery ticket hits in a major way). But I can understand why others would purchase them, especially when I see the entire resulting outfit.

And you know what? I'd have gone for the charcoal jacket. . . if it's what you really wanted. Divide that difference in cost by the number of times you will wear it in your lifetime, and ask yourself if the savings were really significant.

[Alan H]

Alan, in your other thread you expose yourself (so to speak) as a walking, talking, accident-waiting-to-happen kinda guy. If I had the cost-per-wear experiences that you do, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on clothing either.

But whether it's a kilt or any other garment, the cost per wear is an important part of the equation. You'll buy relatively expensive hiking boots because you use them a lot, and they amortize out to an acceptable price -- especially if you have ever tried to hike in cheap boots!

Other people purchase expensive [fill in the blank] because the cost per wear is acceptable in their eyes. We regularly read on this forum about kilts and jackets and yes even socks that were purchased X number of decades ago and are still being used. Perhaps these are people who have a less magnetic personality than you, and are not as attractive to the stray cup of coffee/glass of red wine/glob of epoxy or pine pitch. Perhaps they are like my mother, and darn any weak point in a sock before it has a chance to develop into a hole [I swear she has socks older than I am. . .].

You know how much work goes into a kilt, and you've purchased at least one kilt from another maker. I'm in the "baby steps" stages of knitting kilt hose. I don't know if I will ever get to the skill level to attempt diced, much less argyle hose. But it has given me an appreciation for the time and skill required. No, Bob's not going to buy any $140 hose either (unless tomorrow's lottery ticket hits in a major way). But I can understand why others would purchase them, especially when I see the entire resulting outfit.

And you know what? I'd have gone for the charcoal jacket. . . if it's what you really wanted. Divide that difference in cost by the number of times you will wear it in your lifetime, and ask yourself if the savings were really significant.

Oh, Sydnie7 in now way am I suggesting that the socks are not worth the $140. I mean, I have a pair of sox from String and they are freaking gorgeous and I treat them like ...like.....well, I HAND WASH THEM. Me. Hand wash sox? I think you understand. They are gorgeous sox. It took her HOURS of time to make those socks with skill and loving care.

The real reason I value them so highly is not because they're beautiful, though they are. No, the reason is because String made them for me. They're part of String...she put part of herself into those socks, and gave them to me (for a piddling fee). How can I NOT value that?

As for the jacket... *shudder*... $70? When I will probably dump beer on it the first time out? Or I'll quit throwing and weight lifting in a couple years and shrink so that it hangs on me like a dishrag? Not worth it. In fact, getting even the Navy Blue one, at $229 took a LOT of convincing on my part. I'd have stuck with my "adapted" houndstooth jacket, except that it always WAS too short-waisted and now it's so small inthe shoulders that it's just silly. But five years from now, it won't be...it'll fit again, and it will have cost me $25 at the thrift store, while that $229 jacket finally gets sold on X Marks or gets given away.

That's the truth, and I know it's gonna happen. I'm "renting" this jacket for about 4 years, maybe 3. Seriously. I hope I wear it enough to make it worth it................assuming I don't get wheel bearing grease on it, or something.

[Alan H]

Is OK. Folks can think differently about "stuff"....like clothes and all.

How I look isn't that important to me. I have enough skill to grab a shirt that goes with a kilt in the morning and not look like a bad imitation of a Barnum and Bailey clown when I go to work. When I grab a brown sporran I usually can also find the brown shoes. But how I look....*shrug*... $70 more to have a charcoal jacket when the Navy Blue one will do just fine, and it's already way better than what I have right now? That's an easy decision.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Alan,

I know you, personally, would never spend $140 for a pair of socks, because you have said it multiple times on this forum. But please consider that there is a way of voicing your opinion that does not make those who are considering spending that amount on kilt socks feel like they are wasting their money. I know, you have said "I am not suggesting the socks aren't worth $140." But despite this, the tone I always seem to get from these types of posts from you is one of disdain for anyone who would spend this amount of money on clothing.

For some people $140 is not a lot of money. For some people $140 is a whole lot of money (and I could myself in the latter group). But even for those in the latter group, some people will still choose to spend that amount on socks because they have decided it is worth it for them. As I just said in another thread where you make the same point, we all have to decide how we are going to spend our own money and what is worth it for us.

I know absolutely nothing about the financial situations of any member on this forum. I do assume that grown men and women are capable of deciding on their own how much they can afford to spend on things such as kilts, hose, jackets, sporrans, etc.

Josh said in his post that he was considering off-the-rack over custom knit, primarily for reasons of speed, with cost being a secondary consideration. I am encouraging him simply to reconsider the custom knit option (especially in light of his having hard-to-fit calves) as a better value in the long run. I recommend this especially because he made the point of saying cost was a secondary concern anyway.

So let's just let it be with that, shall we? We are all gown ups here and we can all decided on our own what we want to spend on our Highland clothing.

[Red Stag]

USA Kilts now makes custom Argyll hose and Diced hose.

[Alan H]

Matt, your response to Joshua's question was honest, accurate and reasonable. So, no problem with that, and good on you for giving him the information.

But honestly, the message that "always buy the best" gets pushed VERY hard here on XMarks, and the reverse attitude...the reverse of the one that you ascribe to me, also comes across.

Or at least, I FEEL like it comes across. Hey, maybe I'm paranoid? However, I hear this argument all the time... "buy the best because it will last your lifetime"... and I feel like the implication from some guys on the forum is that if you DON'T "buy the best" then you're a fool, opting for the false economy of "cheap" over "quality".

I think in both cases, both of us are getting annoyed at the perceived implications, rather than the actual message. In your case (and anumber of other fellows as well), annoyed by my perceived implications that if you spend a lot of dough on your clothes, you're a fool....and in my case, the implication that if you DON'T spend a lot of money on your clothes and buy the best, you're a fool.

Honest truth here, Matt.... the reason I toot this horn now and then is because the way I read it, there aren't a lot of guys on this forum who DO say these things, and if I don't, then that message won't get heard. It won't get heard over the contrasting message, which is the "You must buy quality, always buy the best" message, which literally appears in some form, almost every single day. To my way of thinking, that's just not right. It gives the message to new folks on the forum, or people just thinking about wearing a kilt, that there's only one way to do this kilt thing, and that's just not right. Well...in my opinion, it's not right, anyway.

Believe me, it's nothing personal. If you or anyone else wants to only buy the best quality stuff, that's great for you/them, and no doubt you all look splendid in it.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Alan,

I can only speak for myself but I try to advocate that people buy the best quality that they can afford. Ultimately, as I said, we are all adults and responsible for decided what we want to spend our money on.

I think it is assumed that not everyone can justify spending $140 on a pair of socks.

But you come on here and say things such as:

you, perfectly straight-faced (I assume) just told someone to spend a hundred and forty dollars for a pair of socks.

And:

I, personally can not for the life of me see the point in spending a hundred and forty dollars for a pair of socks, and would never do it. They're SOCKS..

...socks, guys.... socks

Granted, you followed these statements up by saying "this is just my perspective" but I think you perhaps could have shared your perspective with a bit more tact.

Think about it this way. Would you log onto a forum for home brewing enthusiasts, find a thread where people are discussing the best places to order all the various tubes and vats and thingies that you need when you get serious into that hobby, and post something like this:

Dudes! You have to be kidding me! You guys are seriously talking about spending how much? To get beer? I'm sure you all have a lot of fun doing it and all, and I'm sure the beer you get is worth it.

All I'm saying is that I can have just as much fun on the weekend with a case of Miller Light as anyone else and that's good enough for me. I mean I would never spend more than maybe $8 on a six-pack, and that's if I really want the fancy stuff.

Again, I'm sure it's all worth it if that's what you enjoy doing. But really guys. It's just beer we are talking about. Beer.

I imagine the good home brewers on the forum would think you were rather rude, and wonder what you were even reading the forum for.

This thread was stated by someone looking for socks that fit larger calves. By definition, most off-the-shelf inexpensive options are not going to work. A lot of suggestions have been made as to alternatives. Josh asked specifically about argyle and diced hose, further adding to the rarity of the item. It's going to be hard to find them cheap.

Not everyone is going to be able to afford them. Not everyone is going to want to. That's perfectly fine.

But let's not call those people who do silly. To me, that's what your post does.

[Alan H]

Alan,


But let's not call those people who do silly. To me, that's what your post does.

I do not think that people who do purchse such items, are "silly". To each, their own, and if something makes someone happy, then they should do that thing....including buying and wearing traditional and expensive Highland clothing.

Matt, do you think that people who have the money to afford the expensive gear, but do not choose to purchase it are "silly", or are making a "judgement mistake" and are therefore foolish?

Honestly, YOU, personally don't come off that way (in my opinion) but a number of other people on the forum DO radiate that message. Like I wrote, maybe I'm paranoid about it, but I feel like I read that message almost every day on this forum, but seldom see the other end of the spectrum. That's why I make posts like this one every now and then....to let the other end of the spectrum get heard.

Going back to your advice to Joshua....it was good advice. You gave him some options about where to purchase expensive hose, and told him the prices. Guid on ya. And I can see how my response came off as offensive, so my bad....I see your point.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Matt, do you think that people who have the money to afford the expensive gear, but do not choose to purchase it are "silly", or are making a "judgement mistake" and are therefore foolish?

No, I don't think they are being silly or making a mistake, not in regards to how to spend their money, in any case. I will admit that I have seen some outfits being worn (and I'm speaking in general, not particularly on this forum) that do look rather silly, in my opinion. There are some things being sold as "Highland dress" that truly more in the realm of cheap costume than any form of clothing. I don't like to see things that in my mind belittle the Scottish culture or heritage.

But I don't think that is what you are referring to. I think what you refer to is the person who maybe pulls down six figures a year and attends a few black tie dinners in his kilt every now and then; and is perfectly content with his $25 pair of navy blue kilt hose that he bought five years ago when he ordered his kilt. He simply does not see the need to buy expensive custom Argyle socks. He thinks others look nice wearing them. He just doesn't personally feel compelled to lay out that kind of cash for socks. I think that is perfectly fine.

Going back to your advice to Joshua....it was good advice. You gave him some options about where to purchase expensive hose, and told him the prices. Guid on ya. And I can see how my response came off as offensive, so my bad....I see your point.

Thank you, Alan, for admitting that. That's all anyone can do, I think. Far be it for me or you or anyone else on this forum to decide what might be too expensive (or too cheap) for anyone else. We all have our own budgets. All we can do is make our personal recommendations, and let each buyer decide what they can or cannot afford (or what they want to spend).