The Kilt's use in Irish Nationalism

[dparrothead1]

Photo from 1929....From the National Library of Ireland. Shows William Gibson, kilted.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlirela...n/photostream/

[MacSpadger]

Historically speaking, is it rational to say a Scottish kilt is a vestigial breacan and the Irish kilt is a vestigial brat, albeit adapted and adopted in the 19th century rather than the 18th century?

This is the point where I will probably depart from this thread, I think. Duck and cover.

The Scottish kilt is a version of the Highland feilidh beag or little kilt, originally worn only in the Highlands. There is some evidence that suggests the pleats were sewn in for the first time by an Englishman, Thomas Rawlinson, in the late 1700's, but there is pictorial evidence that the garment was around in the Highlands before that, although probably without the stitched pleats.

The Irish kilt is more or less a very late 19thc/early 20thc imitation of the Scottish kilt, but without the tartan. When the Gaelic League was seeking to form a national identity they moulded it with a view as to how Ireland would have developed without any English influence. The obvious thing to do (as far as the Gaelic League was concerned), was to look at the Highlands of Scotland where Gaelic was still spoken. The Athbheochan Ghaelach/Gaelic Revival that the Gaelic League began was also heavily influenced by the success of MacPherson's Ossian in the previous century.

The turn of the century adoption of the kilt and great highland bagpipe in Ireland was given credence by propagandists such as Grattan Flood whose silly and often self contradictory claims can still be found copied and pasted onto many "Celtic" websites today.

Books such as Grand Opportunity: The Gaelic Revival and Irish Society, 1893-1910 by Timothy McMahon and Ireland and the Americas: Culture, Politics, and History (Transatlantic Relations) edited by James P. Byrne have helped explain to me how some misconceptions have occurred.

[macwilkin]

This is the point where I will probably depart from this thread, I think. Duck and cover.

The Scottish kilt is a version of the Highland feilidh beag or little kilt, originally worn only in the Highlands. There is some evidence that suggests the pleats were sewn in for the first time by an Englishman, Thomas Rawlinson, in the late 1700's, but there is pictorial evidence that the garment was around in the Highlands before that, although probably without the stitched pleats.

The Irish kilt is more or less a very late 19thc/early 20thc imitation of the Scottish kilt, but without the tartan. When the Gaelic League was seeking to form a national identity they moulded it with a view as to how Ireland would have developed without any English influence. The obvious thing to do (as far as the Gaelic League was concerned), was to look at the Highlands of Scotland where Gaelic was still spoken. The Athbheochan Ghaelach/Gaelic Revival that the Gaelic League began was also heavily influenced by the success of MacPherson's Ossian in the previous century.

The turn of the century adoption of the kilt and great highland bagpipe in Ireland was given credence by propagandists such as Grattan Flood whose silly and often self contradictory claims can still be found copied and pasted onto many "Celtic" websites today.

Books such as Grand Opportunity: The Gaelic Revival and Irish Society, 1893-1910 by Timothy McMahon and Ireland and the Americas: Culture, Politics, and History (Transatlantic Relations) edited by James P. Byrne have helped explain to me how some misconceptions have occurred.

Well said, and thanks for the references -- looks like Matt & I will need to do some revisions to include them!

T.

[Delaney]

Thanks MacSpadger for the historical dialogue. I have a background in historical research, and my question is meant to do some poking around and critically examine my own historical hermeneutic. Not looking for trouble, just looking for truth...which I suppose can be rather troublesome. ;)

[MacSpadger]

Well said, and thanks for the references -- looks like Matt & I will need to do some revisions to include them!

T.

If your interest is that strong, then the Gaelic Revival and Irish Society, 1893-1910 is a good starting point, it was published in the US (Syracuse University Press), so hopefully be easy to obtain. The cover features two Uillean pipers and one Great Highland piper, but 2 are wearing knickerbockers, not kilts. The third is one of the Uillean pipers, and she's wearing a dress.

Ireland and the Americas: Culture, Politics, and History is an awfy lot of money for the obvious facts, and more of a political/social studies work rather than historical work.

[macwilkin]

If your interest is that strong, then the Gaelic Revival and Irish Society, 1893-1910 is a good starting point, it was published in the US (Syracuse University Press), so hopefully be easy to obtain. The cover features two Uillean pipers and one Great Highland piper, but 2 are wearing knickerbockers, not kilts. The third is one of the Uillean pipers, and she's wearing a dress.

Ireland and the Americas: Culture, Politics, and History is an awfy lot of money for the obvious facts, and more of a political/social studies work rather than historical work.

I'll have a wee look on our inter-library loan catalog in just a few moments for it -- Washington University in St. Louis has a large Scottish & Irish history section in their library.

T.

[Zardoz]

Here's an interesting article about the origins of some Highland traditions, that I'll link to without comment. It's from the book 'The Invention of Tradition'

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s...0roper&f=false

[CMcG]

Here's an interesting article about the origins of some Highland traditions, that I'll link to without comment. It's from the book 'The Invention of Tradition'

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s...0roper&f=false

Hobsbawm and Ranger's book is on my self-generated PhD reading list... it just got a whole lot more interesting...

[Jock Scot]

Here's an interesting article about the origins of some Highland traditions, that I'll link to without comment. It's from the book 'The Invention of Tradition'

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s...0roper&f=false

Ah Hugh Trevor-Roper, the renowned cynic on things Scottish, some of his views I must admit, I have some sympathy with!

[MacSpadger]

Hobsbawm and Ranger's book is on my self-generated PhD reading list... it just got a whole lot more interesting...

I have not read this one, but have read Trevor Roper's "Invention of Tradition". Just as Roper's book regurgitates previous works, I wonder if there's anything new in Hobsbawm and Ranger's book?

I am pleased with the reaction to this thread. No-one has exploded yet, or risen to throw stones at me, but you can't blame me for being cautious. There are an awful lot of ideas and events that occur in the USA (and over here, but to a lesser extent), that are considered "traditional" to Scotland or, in particular, Ireland, that have absolutely nothing to do with either country. In fact, they see alien to us.

The reinvention of Scottish national identity began some years after Culloden with the polite society fascination with the "noble savage". It accelerated massively in Victorian times under Queen Victoria, who possibly created one of the world's first theme parks, with town and castle building on a huge scale. Often the locals, real trouser wearing Highlanders, were expelled to make way for kilted lowlanders who fitted in with the Queen's views. In the area where I was born and raised, the north east of Scotland, there is a city and several towns that were built entirely according to English views as to what The Highlands should look like. Townships such as Bonty were eradicted and the locals evicted to make way for the Victorian Highland Gothic architecture of Aboyne.

Back to the OP: Evidence so far suggests very strongly: The Scottish kilt as we know it can be dated to the 1720's, was worn by the military, it later became hugely fashionable, (as did all things Scottish under Queen Vic), and became Scotland's national dress in the Victorian period.
The Irish kilt can be dated to the very late 1800's or very early 1900's. Written contemporary evidence by Pádraig Pearse/Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais clearly says it was not in existence as a considered Irish garment in 1900.
There was an attempt by a wealthy but influential minority to make it the national dress of Ireland/a symbol of Nationalism around this time, but it failed for several reasons very obvious to anyone who has studied Irish history.