Question about flashes...

**MacLowlife** · 17th February 12, 08:30 AM

Furball,

I assume you are talking about a garter under a turned down cuff. If you want a knot for castellated hose- showing the entire garter- you will have to ask somebody else for that.

But if you are looking for the best way to have a garter hold up your socks and show a little flash, as it were, I think the answer is an elastic band of some sort. Depending on the size and shape of your calves, the band can be continuous- simply pulled up over the hump, or fastened with a closure of some sort - a buckle or a little velcro. You can accomplish the same thing with non-elastic webbing or fabric, but that little spring is there for a reason: it keeps your socks up but doesn't cut off your circulation. Elastic garters were advertised for non-highland wear in 1910. If the authenticity inspector is going to look under your hose cuffs, where will he or she stop?

**davidg** · 17th February 12, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by furballx

Is there any info available regarding the fixing or tying of these flashes? I am looking to produce a set for a 1910 style formal evening dress outfit and would like to ge the detail right.

The modern style of solid colour flash tends to be made from coloured wool cloth but these are also a modern trend. Around 20 years ago flashes were made with London Braid, a wide (about 1.5 inches) self coloured braid that had a herringbone type pattern on it. I don't know for sure but I would guess that in 1910 the flashes would have been either traditional garter ties or the London Braid type. I know London Braid ones were used in the 1950s and 60s

**Father Bill** · 18th February 12, 06:23 AM

Good grief! With my morning eyes still blurry, I thought this said this topic was a "Question about flashers" Simple enough in a kilt, I guess!

Gotta get a cuppa coffee!

**TheBrus** · 18th February 12, 06:59 AM

Another, related, question about flashes: I have read that flashes were used as a mark of status in the University of Iowa bagpipe band. Pipers with less experience--I'm assuming that there's an initiation or rite of passage involved here--used to wear plain elastic bands without a flash to hold up hose. I haven't been able to find the origin of this tradition. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was military in origin. I'll wait for the answer off-air. Thanks!

**Tobus** · 20th February 12, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by TheBrus

Another, related, question about flashes: I have read that flashes were used as a mark of status in the University of Iowa bagpipe band. Pipers with less experience--I'm assuming that there's an initiation or rite of passage involved here--used to wear plain elastic bands without a flash to hold up hose. I haven't been able to find the origin of this tradition. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was military in origin. I'll wait for the answer off-air. Thanks!

I have no clue about the University of Iowa, but I am fairly certain that the Scottish regiments in the late 1800s and early 1900s had adapted a sort of colour code for their flashes. I can't claim to know the particulars, but I remember hearing about it in a demonstration from a gentleman who always does a WWI "living history" demonstration at our local Highland Games. He goes into a lot of detail on the uniform, equipment, weaponry, etc. And I could swear he mentioned something about the colour of the flashes being related to the type of service or the role of the person wearing them. As in, riflemen wore red, others wore green or yellow (???).

Perhaps someone else here knows those rules, or could correct me if my memory is completely mistaken?

**creagdhubh** · 24th February 12, 10:26 AM

To me, red flashes are always absolutely spot on and work well with virtually any form of traditional Highland dress - day and/or evening. On another note, check out the sett of the Ogilvie tartan that chap is wearing in the advertisement above, wow!!!

Cheers,

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 24th February 12, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

To me, red flashes are always absolutely spot on and work well with virtually any form of traditional Highland dress - day and/or evening. On anothe note, check out the sett of the Ogilvie tartan that chap is wearing in the advertisement above, wow!!!

Cheers,

I have always been tempted to get a kilt in that tartan. :-) It's the sett with the mist recorded color changes in a single sett repeat.

I have a great-grandmother in my family who was a Storey, which is supposed to be a sept of the Ogilvie clan, so you never know... one day you may see me in one of those!

**creagdhubh** · 24th February 12, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

I have always been tempted to get a kilt in that tartan. :-) It's the sett with the mist recorded color changes in a single sett repeat.

I have a great-grandmother in my family who was a Storey, which is supposed to be a sept of the Ogilvie clan, so you never know... one day you may see me in one of those!

Do it Matt! I would love to see the Ogilvie tartan being worn, as I have never actually seen it worn in person, but I have always had this odd fantasy of wanting to, hahaha!

If I wasn't such a staunch wearer of Macpherson (Chattan) tartans only, I would most definitely have a kilt made of the Ogilvie tartan - could one even have this complex sett pleated to the stripe if they so preferred?!

Cheers,

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 24th February 12, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Do it Matt! I would love to see the Ogilvie tartan being worn, as I have never actually seen it worn in person, but I have always had this odd fantasy of wanting to, hahaha!

If I wasn't such a staunch wearer of Macpherson (Chattan) tartans only, I would most definitely have a kilt made of the Ogilvie tartan - could one even have this complex sett pleated to the stripe if they so preferred?!

Cheers,

Generally when this tartan is pleated the kiltmaker has to create a pattern for it, as it would be impossible to pleat to either sett or stripe given the huge repeat size.

**The Wizard of BC** · 24th February 12, 11:48 AM

Overthinking this topic just a bit.

Garters to hold up one's hose, and keep them from bagging around the ankles, have been around a long time. Lady's and men's fashion have included hose and/or stockings long before modern elastic. If you look at drawings and paintings as far back as the 16th Century you see pantaloons breeches, plus 4's etc. paired with stockings.

What to do, what to do? The folks of those days could wait around for the invention of elastic, but baggy ankles have always been seen as less than well mannered.

There is a line in the record of Captain, Sir Francis Drake's ships stores logs for 50 pair of garter buckles. C. S. Forrester in his Hornblower series makes reference to the Naval uniform including stockings, garters and buckles. The order of the Garter and our own Clan Crests show a strap with a buckle of a type similar to those described earlier.

Ribbons, cords and ties have been used with clothing for a very long time and the use to hold up your stockings is well known. Our modern idea of flashes hanging from an elastic band is probably a fairly modern development. At least since the development of synthetic elastomers. I suppose natural rubber could have been used before. but the point I am trying to get across is that just because we, today are used to elastic with flashes hanging down does not mean that something to hold up your hose was not used before elastic.