Murray/Blackwatch. Why so similar.?

[Paul Henry]

snip...
This brings up a question for me though, what's defines a 'different' tartan, is a tartan only defined by the pattern not the color? It would imply such if a kerr modern and kerr ancient are the same tartan, just different shades.

A tartan has a thread count, that is the number of threads in each line/stripe in each colour. Those colours are usually only recorded as simple blue/red/green etc, and then it is down to the weaver or client or historical precedent which particular shade/hue or tone to go for. And that is why the there is such a variety of the same tartan ( the same thread count) from different weavers , and always helps to explain to weathered/reproduction/ancient/modern versions as well!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

That's fair, it seemed somewhat off to me.

This brings up a question for me though, what's defines a 'different' tartan, is a tartan only defined by the pattern not the color? It would imply such if a kerr modern and kerr ancient are the same tartan, just different shades.

Good question. And you may be interested in my somewhat lengthier answer, here:
http://www.albanach.org/terminology.html

A tartan is defined by its sett (short for "setting" which refers to the pattern of repeating stripes). This is generally rendered as a thread count, giving the colors of the threads, and the numbers of threads of that color, in the order as they appear in the pattern.

This thread count is to give a basic idea of the overall pattern and it not meant to be taken hyper-literally. (If your thread count calls for a stripe of 4 black threads, and a weaver produces the cloth with 6 black threads, it's still the same tartan).

The colors of the tartan are considered in a general sense, not specific hues. This is simply due to the fact that dying yarn can be an imprecise science at best. Different weavers, different mills, have their different dye lots and standard colors. One person's dark green will not exactly match other person's dark green. And so there has always been room for variety in shade.

So the Kerr tartan woven with a bright vivid red is still the same tartan as one woven with a darker brick red.

In the twentieth century mills took advantage of this fact and introduced a variety of "color schemes" the first being "ancient" which simply lightened the hues of all the colors.

Now, if you change the color entirely (say from red to green) then you get a new and different tartan. And if you change the design elements at all, you also get a new tartan.

This is why the Kerr Hunting tartan is considered a different tartan than the Kerr tartan in the ancient colors.

[Four]

Thanks for the explanations

[DougC]

Great thread! Thanks for the explanation.

[DaveMurray]

You guys are amazing. I'm so happy to be a part of this great forum. I am currently waiting for my first kilt!!! Very exciting!!! It's coming from Celtic croft. It's pv. In my clans tartan. I'm getting married and looking forward to lilting up. I am a bit worried about quality as I chose a lower end kilt. Does any body have any experience w/ these kilts. Thanks guy, again.
Ps anybody have a used Murray dress kilt in a 34w 24" drop they may wanna part with???

[Four]

You guys are amazing. I'm so happy to be a part of this great forum. I am currently waiting for my first kilt!!! Very exciting!!! It's coming from Celtic croft. It's pv. In my clans tartan. I'm getting married and looking forward to lilting up. I am a bit worried about quality as I chose a lower end kilt. Does any body have any experience w/ these kilts. Thanks guy, again.
Ps anybody have a used Murray dress kilt in a 34w 24" drop they may wanna part with???

I've got the works sport kilt in hunter, unfortunately my clan's tartan isnt made in PV.

I've enjoyed mine quite a bit, although i'd like to go wool soon

[figheadair]

That's fair, it seemed somewhat off to me.

This brings up a question for me though, what's defines a 'different' tartan, is a tartan only defined by the pattern not the color? It would imply such if a kerr modern and kerr ancient are the same tartan, just different shades.

People often confuse colour and shade, and incorrectly use the latter to describe the former. A bit more background info is here - http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/The..._in_Tartan.pdf