13th Century

[Father Bill]

Hey - whatever the information says, Welcome to the Great Rabble!

[Woodsheal]

I didn't even think of that point. Highland men at arms automatically came to my mind, for whatever reason, rather than knights (highland or otherwise).

Nicely done, sir.

Out of curiosity, would a Highland knight wear the same clothing, as well?

The Highlands were extremely remote at that point in history, and still quite "tribal" in organization, as opposed to feudal. No knights (mounted men-at-arms) in the Highlands in the 13th C.! West Highland grave slabs do depict fighting men in long mail coats, or perhaps thickly pleated leine (no kilts!), with long swords bearing distinctive Scottish hilts.



Remember, Wallace was not a Highlander, and few if any Highlanders "came down" for his rebellion....

[serenitylala]

Remember, Wallace was not a Highlander, and few if any Highlanders "came down" for his rebellion....

Hah! I thought so! I was seriously beginning to wonder why the clan Wallace kept popping up in my ancestry when all the other clans they married into were Norman non-highland clans.

Thanks for the insight! Interesting information on the uniform of the day too.

[Sir Didymous]

Thanks to all for the warm welcomes and replys. This reinforces what I've been finding. Unfortunatly, none of the sites that I regularly use cover Scottish attire from that period, and I've been hitting a lot of walls elsewhere. Most sources online are questionable at best, so when I happened across this forum I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask around.

I normally use effigies and manuscript miniatures to research, but none of the dedicated sites cover Scottland. Thanks to Woodsheal for that effigy. I'd say that he's wearing a gamboised gorget and akatin (padded long tunic and collar).

[Ryan Ross]

No knights (mounted men-at-arms) in the Highlands in the 13th C.!

That was what I was figuring, but I was completely not sure.

Thanks much for the verification.

Thanks to all for the warm welcomes and replys. This reinforces what I've been finding. Unfortunatly, none of the sites that I regularly use cover Scottish attire from that period, and I've been hitting a lot of walls elsewhere. Most sources online are questionable at best, so when I happened across this forum I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask around.

I normally use effigies and manuscript miniatures to research, but none of the dedicated sites cover Scottland. Thanks to Woodsheal for that effigy. I'd say that he's wearing a gamboised gorget and akatin (padded long tunic and collar).

Looks right to my eyes, though I'm obviously no expert here.

[Sir Didymous]

Though all of this my sword brother and I were talking. He threw out the idea of trying a late 1600's fashon so that we will present the much more recignizable appearance for the crowd. The truth is that I have been wanting to put together a kit for the elizabethan era, but have been undecided as to the culture. I was planning on using the name Calin Ferguson. The kit I have in mind is a box ruffled shirt with a half sleeved chain maille hauberk over it and an unlaced doublet over that, a kilt and knee high boots. I was going to carry a great sword and targe. I have dabbled in that combination of weapons for the sake of knowledge of arms. Any thoughts?

[Woodsheal]

Though all of this my sword brother and I were talking. He threw out the idea of trying a late 1600's fashon so that we will present the much more recignizable appearance for the crowd. The truth is that I have been wanting to put together a kit for the elizabethan era, but have been undecided as to the culture. I was planning on using the name Calin Ferguson. The kit I have in mind is a box ruffled shirt with a half sleeved chain maille hauberk over it and an unlaced doublet over that, a kilt and knee high boots. I was going to carry a great sword and targe. I have dabbled in that combination of weapons for the sake of knowledge of arms. Any thoughts?

I think you mean late 1500's for your Elizabethan timeframe! Anyways, the mail shirt still works (they show up in clan weapons inventories as late as the 1630's). The "kilt" should be a belted-plaid for that period, "little kilts" still being a hundred years off in the future. Not sure about "knee high boots" though, unless as a trews-wearing horseman. As a clansman on foot, I'd go with rougher leather leg-wrappings or actual tartan short-hose. The Highland targe was paired with the one-handed, basket-hilted broadsword. Those who chose to wield the two-handed great sword would not utilize a targe....

[Ryan Ross]

The Highland targe was paired with the one-handed, basket-hilted broadsword. Those who chose to wield the two-handed great sword would not utilize a targe....

That's the first thing that sprung to my mind.


I've been studying weapons based martial arts for 22 years, and something like a greatsword and target just... wouldn't be done. I can't even think of how it could be done, to good effect.

Japanese martial arts have been my bread and butter for a long time, but I have certainly had more than a look-see at "Western martial arts". You need to be strong and well practiced to use a greatsword two-handed. Don't know of many, if any one-handed techniques.

Yeah, when I read "greatsword and targe" and "tall boots w/kilt", it screamed out anachronism, to me.

[Dale Seago]

Yeah, when I read "greatsword and targe" and "tall boots w/kilt", it screamed out anachronism, to me.

Same here. And yes, in the late 1500s the belted plaid would have just come into vogue.

[Sir Didymous]

I was a bit wrong on the period mentioned, I tend to stick in closer to my common portrayal, but the great sword of war and targe combo has been done by English knights around the turn of the 13th and 14th centuries. The targe I use is just under a 2' diameter, at such size it allows me to grip the sword while wearing it. The first couple of times I used this combo it was pretty akward, but then I found the moves to make it happen. The only reason I even tried is because the roots of the targe and the greatsword are in the late 13th C. It derived from the sword I'll actually be using (I can't drop $300 on an event specific weapon right now), which was actually termed a "great sword of war" in the era. It's just under what most people think of as far as great swords in length and at 6'2" I am just tall enough to pull off some interesting manuvers. It's weight and balance are similar to a bastard sword. The boots I'll be wearing are going to have their tops covered with tartan wraps. I just want some of the protection of my normal boots (the guy I'll be fighting likes to go for the legs). I figue as part of the fight I'll switch to using the french-style hand axe that I keep on hand for a back up weapon. From some of the archaeological finds, it seems to be of a style that could have been in use in the area.