Too Traditional?

[ForresterModern]

...I suggest that we ought to try to be a lot more understanding on this website, many of us are overly critical of the subjects in pictures, particularly as we can study a picture at our leisure for as long as we want. We are unaware of the circumstance of a picture. Someone might be wearing a jacket, sweater and white hose in the height of a heatwave and lo and behold a full salvo of fairly hefty critisism arrives from all diections. But, BUT what we don't know is that the fellow in the picture has just left hospital after a hefty dose of malaria and having fallen over and tearing his claret hose he borrowed a pair of white hose to get him by. I honestly think by worrying about the minute detail, we miss the overall image that I see with my split second glance when walking down Inverness High Street.

Speaking from personal experience, Jock?

[Jock Scot]

Speaking from personal experience, Jock?

Well yes! There was the time when I did take a bit of a tumble, I can't remember why, and had the need to borrow some kilt hose pretty sharpish and all that was available were white synthetic things. They raised the eyebrows, more than somewhat, of the young lady's parents who I was taking out to dinner and the young lady in question dumped me soon after.I wonder if the white hose had anyt-----------------------------?

Then there was the occasion when doing up a buckle on a very old hand me down kilt(I have never seen cloth like it since, it was wonderful), again to take a young lady out, the strap gave way so a belt was needed post haste. The choice available was some baler string or an old army webbing belt -----the belt won. That caused some consternation I can tell you!

Then there was the occa-------------

and then----

So yes Jeff, had pictures been taken they certainly would give an inaccurate impression of what a younger Jock would have normally worn!

[CMcG]

I have been thinking about this and whilst it sounds so obvious to me it is plainly not obvious to those new to kilt wearing, or, those who are unaware of the subtleties involved. Those that just don't care do not need to read further and fair enough. To avoid the "costume look", requires experience and it helps to have the luck of having the benefit of others to steer us through the sartorial minefield. This is where a website like this is so valuable to those that want to learn. The first lesson to learn is that "there are more ways to skin a cat than one". So a combination of personal flair,informed imagination and common sense is a prerequisite before we tap into the available experience.
...

Now you're getting warmed up Jock! As baffling as it may be to those with native kilt fluency, sometimes things are not as obvious as they might appear... especially for those looking to negotiate the metaphorical sartorial minefield of both honouring the tradition and making a good impression on their hosts and/or peers. Some of the subtleties found in how to vary the pieces of traditional kit to suit not only circumstances, but also one's own taste, are particularly thorny.

I think this is where a balance must be struck. Certainly knowledge of the different aspects of Highland attire must be matched to the occasion. But this where the personal touch comes in; sometimes wearing EXACTLY the right thing comes across as trying too hard to look right, rather than making an informed, individual choice from the vast range of THCD options.

To us an analogy, could too traditional be like a self-tied bow tie that is tied too perfectly?

I fear that it is possible for those who have not absorbed enough of the tradition -- something not as simple as acquiring knowledge and a large wardrobe -- to come across as disingenuous...

...
However, there are many who would like to get things somewhere near right that are completely unaware , even after considerable thought and possibly expence too, that their proudly worn attire is nothing more than a costume and not what was intended at all. Which is a shame.

A shame indeed.

The subject of this thread might be this possibility of expending thought, effort, and money in an effort to get it right (i.e. get it THCD), but only to end up looking like a caricature: more Scottish than the Scots themselves and traditional to the point of exaggeration. It's easy enough for someone very new to kilts to do this, but I sometimes see people who have much more experience doing the same thing. I have probably made the same mistake myself, which actually pains me

...
I suggest that we ought to try to be a lot more understanding on this website, many of us are overly critical of the subjects in pictures, particularly as we can study a picture at our leisure for as long as we want. We are unaware of the circumstance of a picture. ...

This point is well-taken. As another example, I knew I would have a few opportunities to wear the kilt here in Hong Kong but could only bring a limited amount of luggage. This meant bringing one kilt jacket (dress Argyll), one pair of hose, etc. I've felt slightly under-dressed for black tie, where my mess jacket and diced hose might have been better, but slightly over dressed for less formal occasions where a tweed jacket would have been more appropriate. At least the hem of my kilt didn't fall too low on my knee!

[Jock Scot]

CMcG.

Do I get it right every time? No!

[CMcG]

CMcG.

Do I get it right every time? No!

That is actually quite reassuring

[creagdhubh]

Hahaha! What a great thread gents, thank you to all who have contributed!

Slainte,

[Dale Seago]

Some of the subtleties found in how to vary the pieces of traditional kit to suit not only circumstances, but also one's own taste, are particularly thorny.

I think this is where a balance must be struck. Certainly knowledge of the different aspects of Highland attire must be matched to the occasion. But this where the personal touch comes in; sometimes wearing EXACTLY the right thing comes across as trying too hard to look right, rather than making an informed, individual choice from the vast range of THCD options.

To us an analogy, could too traditional be like a self-tied bow tie that is tied too perfectly?

I think that pretty well nails it. To give an example from fairly recent (mid-December) experience, I and my SO went to the annual Christmas Revels over in Oakland, in the auditorium of the Masonic Center there. Over the decade-plus that I've been attending, I've invariably seen a few kilts among the audience. On this occasion, during intermission as I was in line to grab a hot dog I noticed a kilted gentleman in another line: Black PC and waiscoat, dress sporran & chain, white hose, and black ghillie brogues. He was perhaps in his thirties and in good shape; but he stuck out like a sore thumb because he was so overdressed. No one else wore so much as a necktie; general dress at this annual event is always casual, with the highest level of formality seen in gents being perhaps slacks and open-neck shirt with a blazer or sport coat.

I was also kilted; there's a pic here with a couple I ran into (former students of mine, who met in the dojo and got married) and their son:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2&l=4e616d31f0

[Ryan Ross]

I suggest that we ought to try to be a lot more understanding on this website, many of us are overly critical of the subjects in pictures, particularly as we can study a picture at our leisure for as long as we want. We are unaware of the circumstance of a picture. Someone might be wearing a jacket, sweater and white hose in the height of a heatwave and lo and behold a full salvo of fairly hefty critisism arrives from all diections. But, BUT what we don't know is that the fellow in the picture has just left hospital after a hefty dose of malaria and having fallen over and tearing his claret hose he borrowed a pair of white hose to get him by. I honestly think by worrying about the minute detail, we miss the overall image that I see with my split second glance when walking down Inverness High Street.

Very well said, Jock!

And with that in mind, and because it seems somewhat relevant to the thread, and because I'm getting Confirmed tomorrow (in this outfit or something close)...

Would you folks provide some musings on said outfit?

I was trying to go for a fairly understated impression, as is my custom.

Does it look ok, first off?

How "traditional" does it strike you? "Contemporary"?

Hah- I know my hair's messy and my shoes need a shine, but I should be able to take care of all that by tomorrow.

[creagdhubh]

Ryan,

I think you look very smart!

To me, I see both the traditional and contemporary elements at work here. I find the contemporary aspect only in your choice of shirt and neck tie colour. It seems to me that the use of black collared shirts with various solid coloured neck ties, is a fairly 'modern' invention and tends to look very trendy (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

I think your attire overall would look more 'traditional' if you wore a white collared shirt with the same neck tie, or perhaps another neck tie altogether - the choice, however, is ultimately up to you and I think you look great!

P.S. - Do you own a pair of claret or red hose (I am looking at your tartan for reference)? That may give your overall look even more of a 'punch!'

Well done,

[Jock Scot]

Very smart Ryan , although I think for me, a white shirt would be better.